What is the point of effort in workouts on the AW?

[DMG35]

Why does Apple ask for effort after a workout? It’s almost like they put it in there because other companies like Garmin use effort to track your recovery. I see nothing with the Apple Watch when I log effort every day. I get no notifications on it, nothing. So what is it there for?

I know with my Garmin watch the effort is tracked and they make recommendations on what to do following an intense workout but with Apple its like its there just to be there. What am I missing here?

 

[PatrickNSF]

Apple uses your self-reported Effort to calculate your Training Load.

 

[Grayburn]

As Patrick stated, you’ll find your Training Load in the Fitness app.

 

[doogm]

I spent about a month rating effort after each workout after I updated to watchOS 11 but now I don't bother. It tends to estimate itself now. My only issue with the rating is that (IIRC) they don't describe what they mean by "effort". What's a 1 vs. a 3? What's a 3 vs. 4 vs. 5? Etc.

 

[PatrickNSF]

I prefer the training load implementation in the Coros app (I export all of my workouts into it) but still keep effort ratings up to date in the Fitness app in case Apple improves it during the next iteration.

Also, I found this helpful –

 

[MarkX]

I spent about a month rating effort after each workout after I updated to watchOS 11 but now I don't bother. It tends to estimate itself now. My only issue with the rating is that (IIRC) they don't describe what they mean by "effort". What's a 1 vs. a 3? What's a 3 vs. 4 vs. 5? Etc.

It's using the RPE scale. Rate of perceived effort. 1 - 10, 10 being a max effort.

 

[azhava]

I spent about a month rating effort after each workout after I updated to watchOS 11 but now I don't bother. It tends to estimate itself now. My only issue with the rating is that (IIRC) they don't describe what they mean by "effort". What's a 1 vs. a 3? What's a 3 vs. 4 vs. 5? Etc.

The Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) Scale Explained

This blog will do a deep dive on how to monitor intense exercises by using the RPE scale method.

blog.nasm.org

 

[doogm]

It's using the RPE scale. Rate of perceived effort. 1 - 10, 10 being a max effort.

The Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE) Scale Explained

This blog will do a deep dive on how to monitor intense exercises by using the RPE scale method.

blog.nasm.org

1. The Apple Watch and the fitness app IIRC does not do this. It just asks for a number rating with no explanation.

2. Reading that link I am still confused - what exactly is easy? What exactly is hard? What exactly is very hard? How do you tell the difference? Can the watch simply say that, say, if you are walking or running and cannot carry on a conversation that is is very hard, but if you can barely do so it is hard, and if you can easily do so it is easy? (And are those accurate statements? - I do not know.)

 

[azhava]

1. The Apple Watch and the fitness app IIRC does not do this. It just asks for a number rating with no explanation.

The watch automatically assigns a rating based upon the metrics it gathers from your workout. I guess maybe it assumes that if you're enough of an athlete to override its ratings and assign one manually, you understand RPE and would be able to discern whether your workout was light moderate, medium moderate or heavy moderate, etc.

2. Reading that link I am still confused - what exactly is easy? What exactly is hard? What exactly is very hard? How do you tell the difference? Can the watch simply say that, say, if you are walking or running and cannot carry on a conversation that is is very hard, but if you can barely do so it is hard, and if you can easily do so it is easy? (And are those accurate statements? - I do not know.)

It's all subjective. And if I had to scroll down through all that on the watch before assigning a rating, I'd 'X' out and say forget it. 🤣

 

[TTTedP]

1. The Apple Watch and the fitness app IIRC does not do this. It just asks for a number rating with no explanation.

2. Reading that link I am still confused - what exactly is easy? What exactly is hard? What exactly is very hard? How do you tell the difference? Can the watch simply say that, say, if you are walking or running and cannot carry on a conversation that is is very hard, but if you can barely do so it is hard, and if you can easily do so it is easy? (And are those accurate statements? - I do not know.)

“perceived” is the key word here. You decide how you felt.

 

[doogm]

Because of the two answers you guys just gave, I’ve turned off the notification of effort after a workout and I am no longer doing it. I have no way of saying subjectively if one walking workout is easy vs moderate vs hard when I also run and do interval bike workouts. Are they measured against that, or only other walking workouts? Is a running workout measured against an all-out sprint for very hard, and a walk is very easy, so any continuous run is at least moderate, or is it only measured against another run?

Because I spent a couple of weeks “measuring” my effort, yes, the workout app does assign an effort to some of my workouts, but not all of them. I just started doing yoga workouts this year, months after I stopped rating workouts, and they are never assigned an effort.

I think what I needed was not something that said after every workout “this is how you rate your effort” - I just needed one on-boarding that described what the watch was expecting in order to measure training load. Or, better, I would prefer it always just assign itself based on heart rate zones, length of workout, cardio fitness for the workouts where that is collected, heart rate recovery after the workout, etc., rather than ask the user to rate effort. Like cardio fitness, this should be a machine-learning model that is prepared for everyone. Let people override the automatic rating if they wish.

I’m not looking to argue with anyone about this - if it works for you, that’s great - I’m just saying that I find it incomplete and I think that it’s one thing that is not well-implemented by Apple and the watch regarding fitness, at least for me, and in my opinion.

 

[TTTedP]

Are they measured against that, or only other walking workouts? Is a running workout measured against an all-out sprint for very hard, and a walk is very easy, so any continuous run is at least moderate, or is it only measured against another run?

In my head, I tell myself the scale is inclusive of all workout possibilities, not relative to one workout type; walks/yoga > easy to moderate, runs/swims > moderate to hard, bike > moderate to hard. Even Garmin does it with little smiley faces("how did you feel?") vs assigning a # 1-10.

Maybe this year Apple steps it up to assign effort based on real metrics. IMO, Apple is dipping their toes (as they do) without having to face the criticism they know will come with using real scores (blogs need content after all). There are plenty of arguments elsewhere even with Garmin, etc where people debate the accuracy of sensors, algorithms, etc that go into those metrics. And in the end a lot of people say "FU, I know how I felt".

If you want a science based score on your AW, for now, use an app like HealthFit or Athlytic. Or just use RPE

 

[azhava]

...I think what I needed was not something that said after every workout “this is how you rate your effort” - I just needed one on-boarding that described what the watch was expecting in order to measure training load. Or, better, I would prefer it always just assign itself based on heart rate zones, length of workout, cardio fitness for the workouts where that is collected, heart rate recovery after the workout, etc., rather than ask the user to rate effort. Like cardio fitness, this should be a machine-learning model that is prepared for everyone. Let people override the automatic rating if they wish.

That's exactly what it does now. It assigns an effort level based on the parameters of the workout and you can either accept it or override it if you don't agree with it.

I very rarely override the level it assigns to my workouts. I may have bumped it one number either way a couple times, but I've never seen it assign a 'wtf' value that I completely disagreed with.

 

[doogm]

That's exactly what it does now. It assigns an effort level based on the parameters of the workout and you can either accept it or override it if you don't agree with it.

For me it only does that with workouts (running and walking) that I have previously assigned an "effort", and I have no idea if I assigned them right. Any other workout category never gets an effort assigned.

 

[tom2517]

I actually liked self assigned effort and found my self frequently changing the estimate. Right now those watches are not good at estimating your RPE, at least not yet.

I do a lot of steady zone 2 cycling indoor training, and depends on my sleep quality, food intake, hydrations, what time of the day I did my workout and etc., at similar HR range my effort could vary anywhere from easy, to normal to hard.

For instance if I had a lot of alcohol the day before, even at my normal zone 2 HR of ~128, I could feel I am just slumbering and can’t wait to get the workout over with. But on a good day, HR of ~128 feels like only 100 and I feel like I can go for hours. So even at similar HR I would assign effort differently.

 

[DMG35]

My point with effort is that it doesn't do anything. There is no point to it. It's just a feature Apple put in to try and ape Garmin who does it much better.

On a Garmin watch it will make recommendations to you based on your last workout and the effort you put into it. Apple needs to do something similar as it's just a useless feature right now so that Apple can say "We track effort just like Garmin does."

 

[CharlesShaw]

I know with my Garmin watch the effort is tracked and they make recommendations on what to do following an intense workout but with Apple its like its there just to be there.

My point with effort is that it doesn't do anything.

Assuming you need this level of effort tracking, why not just use your Garmin when training?

I do intense (for my age) workouts and tell my AWU to track them, but I never review the data later. My cellular AWU is with me primarily for BT music at the gym, to allow me to leave wallet (Apple Pay) and iPhone at home, and to provide peace of mind if I fell or needed emergency assistance.

 

[Le Big Mac]

It's using the RPE scale. Rate of perceived effort. 1 - 10, 10 being a max effort.

My question about RPE is whether it depends on length.

For example, if I go hard on a bike ride for 1 hour is that the same RPE as if I go hard for 2 hours? Or is it double RPE? I would have thought the former, but Apple doesn't seem to consider time at effort to determine training load (like a hard 10 min session seems to kick it up as much as a hard 2 hour session)

 

[DMG35]

Assuming you need this level of effort tracking, why not just use your Garmin when training?

I do intense (for my age) workouts and tell my AWU to track them, but I never review the data later. My cellular AWU is with me primarily for BT music at the gym, to allow me to leave wallet (Apple Pay) and iPhone at home, and to provide peace of mind if I fell or needed emergency assistance.

So your logic is that Apple can put a feature that doesn't do anything on the Ape Watch but who cares. If the feature is there then it should be useful. That is the point of any feature on the watch. What if Apple had Apple Pay on the phone but it only showed you your transactions and didn't actually allow you to pay with your watch? That's essentially what effort is on the Apple watch and your suggestion to just use a Garmin watch is ridiculous.

 

[CharlesShaw]

and your suggestion to just use a Garmin watch is ridiculous.

You already own a Garmin, so I don't think it's that ridiculous. Perhaps you could request other readers who need effort tracking to submit feedback to Apple.

 

[Mackilroy]

He’s also wrong that it doesn’t do anything. He comes off just as not liking that the watch doesn’t then tell him what to do, as his Garmin would. DMG, maybe you should try one of the numerous third-party fitness programs available for the Watch - they’ll tell you exactly what to do, if that’s what you’re looking for.

 

[arc of the universe]

Why does Apple ask for effort after a workout? It’s almost like they put it in there because other companies like Garmin use effort to track your recovery. I see nothing with the Apple Watch when I log effort every day. I get no notifications on it, nothing. So what is it there for?

I know with my Garmin watch the effort is tracked and they make recommendations on what to do following an intense workout but with Apple its like its there just to be there. What am I missing here?

you are right that apple collects a lot of data, but in return doesn't provide a great deal of recommended actions.
so far, apple was content to collect it all in the Health app, and simply provide general medical research community articles for you to read.
but its rumoured that in iOS 26 the Health app will be more in line with what you seem to be wanting.

by the way, i use Gentler Streak. And, for me, it does a great job of analysing all of the available data including sleep and VO2max etc to make recommendations. it also uses the Rate of Perceived Exertion data.

i also think that apple letting the user set the workout hardness level is very important. the person doing the workout knows how hard s/he worked out and is in the best place to actually put a number to it, as long as the person uses a consistent rating scale.

 

[DMG35]

you are right that apple collects a lot of data, but in return doesn't provide a great deal of recommended actions.
so far, apple was content to collect it all in the Health app, and simply provide general medical research community articles for you to read.
but its rumoured that in iOS 26 the Health app will be more in line with what you seem to be wanting.

by the way, i use Gentler Streak. And, for me, it does a great job of analysing all of the available data including sleep and VO2max etc to make recommendations. it also uses the Rate of Perceived Exertion data.

i also think that apple letting the user set the workout hardness level is very important. the person doing the workout knows how hard s/he worked out and is in the best place to actually put a number to it.

Thank you, I'll give that app a try.

 

[DMG35]

He’s also wrong that it doesn’t do anything. He comes off just as not liking that the watch doesn’t then tell him what to do, as his Garmin would. DMG, maybe you should try one of the numerous third-party fitness programs available for the Watch - they’ll tell you exactly what to do, if that’s what you’re looking for.

Lol, you couldn't be more wrong. I have both the series 10 and the Ultra 2 so I'd say I probably like the Apple Watch. I'm not asking it to tell me what to do, I'm asking it to make use of a feature that it has and does nothing with. And 3rd party apps aren't the answer for everything Apple Watch.

And no, effort doesn't do anything on the Apple Watch.

Apple integrates their features into the watch better than any 3rd party app. Based on what you are saying I doubt you work out or use the effort feature anyway so I'm not sure why you are commenting anyway.

 

[DMG35]

You already own a Garmin, so I don't think it's that ridiculous. Perhaps you could request other readers who need effort tracking to submit feedback to Apple.

I don't own a Garmin. I have in the past but don't anymore. And if Apple wants to compete with them from a fitness standpoint they could take some lessons from them.