Citizen Linus
From: | Linus Torvalds <torvalds-AT-linux-foundation.org> | |
To: | Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers-AT-efficios.com> | |
Subject: | Re: [RFC PATCH] check_preempt_tick should not compare vruntime with wall time | |
Date: | Mon, 13 Sep 2010 10:51:38 -0700 | |
Message-ID: | <AANLkTi=8m4g01wZPacySoF7U0PevTNVgJoZZrHiUD-pN@mail.gmail.com> | |
Cc: | Peter Zijlstra <peterz-AT-infradead.org>, LKML <linux-kernel-AT-vger.kernel.org>, Andrew Morton <akpm-AT-linux-foundation.org>, Ingo Molnar <mingo-AT-elte.hu>, Steven Rostedt <rostedt-AT-goodmis.org>, Thomas Gleixner <tglx-AT-linutronix.de>, Tony Lindgren <tony-AT-atomide.com>, Mike Galbraith <efault-AT-gmx.de> | |
Archive‑link: | Article |
On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Mathieu Desnoyers <mathieu.desnoyers@efficios.com> wrote: > > FWIW, Xorg and firefox feel _much more_ responsive with the fix I propose when > running with a make -j10. The system is even usable with a make -j20 on my UP > machine, even though I can start feeling a some lag. This is probably a more > important, yet less scientific, result. I'll test that myself (but in a bit - I need to go do voter registration and socsec update first, though - I became a US citizen last week). Because yes, that's the reason I'm personally interested in your scheduler latency work: I think our X behavior under load is pitiful (I do "make -j16" on my dual-core with HT Core i5, and web browsong shouldn't start to lag as much as it does just because I overcommit the CPU a bit). So if this makes a noticeable difference, I think it's very important. Linus -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html Please read the FAQ at http://www.tux.org/lkml/
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:22 UTC (Mon)
by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698)
[Link]
Congratulations, Linus!
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:22 UTC (Mon) by brouhaha (subscriber, #1698) [Link]
Ahhh .... now I see
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:42 UTC (Mon)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:42 UTC (Mon) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (3 responses)
Ahhh .... now I see
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:40 UTC (Mon)
by Slumberthud (subscriber, #45657)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:40 UTC (Mon) by Slumberthud (subscriber, #45657) [Link] (2 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:44 UTC (Mon)
by deepfire (guest, #26138)
[Link] (60 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 20:44 UTC (Mon) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link] (60 responses)
This is political news, there is absolutely no way around it, I'm sorry.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:00 UTC (Mon)
by lwinkenb (guest, #60737)
[Link]
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:00 UTC (Mon) by lwinkenb (guest, #60737) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:39 UTC (Mon)
by stevenb (guest, #11536)
[Link] (58 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:39 UTC (Mon) by stevenb (guest, #11536) [Link] (58 responses)
There should be a poll, about whether Linus is a Republican or a Democrat :-)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 22:19 UTC (Mon)
by yokem_55 (guest, #10498)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 22:19 UTC (Mon) by yokem_55 (guest, #10498) [Link] (1 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:28 UTC (Tue)
by epa (subscriber, #39769)
[Link]
This blog post has some of Linus's thoughts about US politics.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:28 UTC (Tue) by epa (subscriber, #39769) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:07 UTC (Mon)
by ofranja (subscriber, #11084)
[Link] (7 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:07 UTC (Mon) by ofranja (subscriber, #11084) [Link] (7 responses)
When I think about this, my concept of neutrality and unbiased media coverage gets very twisted. But hey, that's the land of freedom and truth, so they must be doing it right. :-)
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 7:34 UTC (Tue)
by khim (subscriber, #9252)
[Link] (5 responses)
"The winner takes all" model naturally leads to duopoly. If you choose "A" or "B" you hope to change something next term - this is US politics. When you choose "C" you are showing your POV but have no real hope to change anything, so that's not politics, that's PR.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 7:34 UTC (Tue) by khim (subscriber, #9252) [Link] (5 responses)
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 8:51 UTC (Tue)
by dgm (subscriber, #49227)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 8:51 UTC (Tue) by dgm (subscriber, #49227) [Link] (2 responses)
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:13 UTC (Tue)
by klbrun (subscriber, #45083)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:13 UTC (Tue) by klbrun (subscriber, #45083) [Link]
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:52 UTC (Tue)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:52 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:21 UTC (Tue)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:21 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)
This is natural selection...
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:43 UTC (Tue)
by bgmarete (guest, #47484)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:43 UTC (Tue) by bgmarete (guest, #47484) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 23, 2010 19:14 UTC (Thu)
by pjones (subscriber, #31722)
[Link]
There's a name for the reason this happens - Duverger's Law.
Posted Sep 23, 2010 19:14 UTC (Thu) by pjones (subscriber, #31722) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:07 UTC (Mon)
by deepfire (guest, #26138)
[Link] (47 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:07 UTC (Mon) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link] (47 responses)
Your suggestion (which I take literally), that his miniscule voting power can somehow outweigh that implicit support -- I think it's plain ridiculous.
The only way I see he could undo the damage, is to vocally oppose the status quo.
However, from my observations Linus does not seem like a political person. Which makes it a saddening paradox.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:32 UTC (Mon)
by DOT (subscriber, #58786)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:32 UTC (Mon) by DOT (subscriber, #58786) [Link] (3 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:22 UTC (Tue)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:22 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 2:57 UTC (Thu)
by thedevil (guest, #32913)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 2:57 UTC (Thu) by thedevil (guest, #32913) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 17, 2010 17:08 UTC (Fri)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
What money is there in being a US citizen? As opposed to being a US permanent resident, which is what Linus was before.
Posted Sep 17, 2010 17:08 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:54 UTC (Mon)
by nicooo (guest, #69134)
[Link]
Posted Sep 13, 2010 23:54 UTC (Mon) by nicooo (guest, #69134) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 0:23 UTC (Tue)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link] (19 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 0:23 UTC (Tue) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (19 responses)
The US sure isn't perfect, but hyperbole like yours is just silly and taints real complaints.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 0:39 UTC (Tue)
by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 0:39 UTC (Tue) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link] (9 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 2:28 UTC (Tue)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 2:28 UTC (Tue) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (8 responses)
Like I said, hyperbole just taints any kernel (there! back on topic :-) of truth in your argument. There is plenty wrong, but it pales in comparison to the other oppressive nations around the world. If oppressive governments really do worry you, you ought to present the best argument possible, not the silliest.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 4:59 UTC (Tue)
by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 4:59 UTC (Tue) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link] (1 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:49 UTC (Tue)
by tonyblackwell (subscriber, #43641)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:49 UTC (Tue) by tonyblackwell (subscriber, #43641) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 5:56 UTC (Tue)
by bgmarete (guest, #47484)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 5:56 UTC (Tue) by bgmarete (guest, #47484) [Link] (5 responses)
What deepfire said is really a plain fact. One has to have been `educated' in the American system or something very close to it to honestly deny it.
Furthermore, the United States' historical willingness to support or abate mass oppression, both domestic and foreign, is made globally dangerous by its global reach. A typical tinpot dictator can only get hold of so many people.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:25 UTC (Tue)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:25 UTC (Tue) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (4 responses)
You might as well blame the UK, half the nasty tinpot states are either ex-UK colonial possessions or the result of bad line-drawing in the departure phase (and we tried to end our empire *neatly*, god only knows what a mess we'd have made if we'd fallen apart unwillingly like most empires do).
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:34 UTC (Tue)
by hppnq (guest, #14462)
[Link] (2 responses)
Here in the Low Lands, from where we watch the world with a slight sense of pity, we actually consider the US to be one of those nasty tinpot states.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:34 UTC (Tue) by hppnq (guest, #14462) [Link] (2 responses)
We regret ever having given up on New Amsterdam. We may want it back, so we can enforce world peace by requiring our citizens to wear wooden shoes at all times, except indoors. This should drastically reduce the desire to go run around in the desert with heavy artillery.
We will proceed to kindly ask the citizens of New New Amsterdam to spend a certain amount of time per day watching tulips grow, or, if they prefer this, windmills turn. Offenders will be supplied with hallucinatory sedatives. This should suppress even the slightest inclination for going on missions to spread sociopolitical views that will later be found somewhat lacking in substance and coherence, to random foreign nations sitting on large quantities of materials possessing shiny or oily qualities.
We will also require that citizens drop the affected, nasal tone and start getting used to grunting. We feel that the sensation of a properly pronounced 'g' helps improve the quality of our communication by keeping it to a minimum. And frankly, it is getting on our nerves.
Lastly, we would like to stress the importance of a decent paper atlas for looking up places such as "Myanmar" so as to prevent the Google Maps induced class of mistakes that lands unsuspecting citizens in the Mohawk River rather than Amsterdam, Holland.
We recognize that the local powers may not be immediately favourable to our intentions without further encouragement, so as soon as we have hoisted the sails, we will again raid the Medway to get rid of those pesky Britons.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:24 UTC (Tue)
by michel (subscriber, #10186)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:24 UTC (Tue) by michel (subscriber, #10186) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 15:42 UTC (Wed)
by Wol (subscriber, #4433)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 15:42 UTC (Wed) by Wol (subscriber, #4433) [Link]
Cheers,
Wol
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:56 UTC (Tue)
by bgmarete (guest, #47484)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:56 UTC (Tue) by bgmarete (guest, #47484) [Link]
Regarding the UK, we in the commonwealth know them well. Let's not start :-)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 2:20 UTC (Tue)
by MisterIO (guest, #36192)
[Link] (8 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 2:20 UTC (Tue) by MisterIO (guest, #36192) [Link] (8 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 3:33 UTC (Tue)
by nicooo (guest, #69134)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 3:33 UTC (Tue) by nicooo (guest, #69134) [Link] (5 responses)
You have to consider the size of the population. Though it's still pretty bad in some states, specially Texas.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:02 UTC (Tue)
by shmget (guest, #58347)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:02 UTC (Tue) by shmget (guest, #58347) [Link] (4 responses)
Country Executions
CHINA 1718+
IRAN 346+
SAUDI ARABIA 102+
USA 37
PAKISTAN 36+
IRAQ 34+
VIET NAM 19+
AFGHANISTAN 17+
NORTH KOREA 15+
JAPAN 15
YEMEN 13+
INDONESIA 10
LIBYA 8+
BANGLADESH 5
BELARUS 4
EGYPT 2+
MALAYSIA 1+
MONGOLIA 1+
SINGAPORE 1+
SUDAN 1+
SYRIA 1+
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 1+
BAHRAIN 1
BOTSWANA 1
SAINT KITTS AND NEVIS 1
Rest of the World : 0
But the point in not the numbers, but the company the US keep.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:16 UTC (Tue)
by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:16 UTC (Tue) by rahulsundaram (subscriber, #21946) [Link] (1 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:01 UTC (Tue)
by MisterIO (guest, #36192)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:01 UTC (Tue) by MisterIO (guest, #36192) [Link]
That said, Japan _is_ better than North Corea, just like are most countries of the rest of the world, USA included.(not sure I wrote this in good english)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 8:11 UTC (Wed)
by lacostej (guest, #2760)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 8:11 UTC (Wed) by lacostej (guest, #2760) [Link]
2009: 52
2008: 37
2007: 42
2006: 53
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions-united-states-...
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 18:27 UTC (Tue)
by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 18:27 UTC (Tue) by aleXXX (subscriber, #2742) [Link] (1 responses)
> this planet"(it's not even close to that), but it's definitely a
> moralistic and conservative country.
...
> It's also one of the countries which execute more people (second only
> to China) and I don't even want to start talking about those states in
> the US where it's possible to execute even minors!
Then move to New York or Massachusetts, there capital punishment is declared to be unconstitutional :-)
So, this is a decision of the state, not of the country US.
Beside that, New York is a beautiful state :-)
Alex
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 5:08 UTC (Tue)
by xav (guest, #18536)
[Link] (6 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 5:08 UTC (Tue) by xav (guest, #18536) [Link] (6 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:22 UTC (Tue)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:22 UTC (Tue) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link] (3 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 11:29 UTC (Tue)
by bluss (guest, #47454)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 11:29 UTC (Tue) by bluss (guest, #47454) [Link] (1 responses)
That said, it seems he's buying stocks in a heavily indebted company.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:04 UTC (Tue)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:04 UTC (Tue) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:33 UTC (Tue)
by alankila (guest, #47141)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:33 UTC (Tue) by alankila (guest, #47141) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 11:15 UTC (Tue)
by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 11:15 UTC (Tue) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link] (1 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 17, 2010 17:24 UTC (Fri)
by giraffedata (guest, #1954)
[Link]
More like it was supposed to echo whatever the title of Citizen Kane echoes. "Citizen" as a person's title comes from somewhere, and I don't think the author of Citizen Kane made it up.
Posted Sep 17, 2010 17:24 UTC (Fri) by giraffedata (guest, #1954) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:35 UTC (Tue)
by jackb (guest, #41909)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:35 UTC (Tue) by jackb (guest, #41909) [Link] (5 responses)
Not to say that there's anything good about our situation but at least we we haven't had our freedom to criticize removed via hate crime laws nor do we have trash police going through everyone's garbage. We're also lacking the death penalty for apostasy that some other more oppressive states have.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:40 UTC (Tue)
by deepfire (guest, #26138)
[Link] (4 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:40 UTC (Tue) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link] (4 responses)
Contrary to whatever U.S. citizens might think[1], the rest of the world is much more concerned with its extraborder affairs.
1. If it sounds as an insult, this is only because it is so close to being true, at least judging by statements in the thread.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:45 UTC (Tue)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link] (3 responses)
And this is not the first time you've made your point. This discussion is off-topic for LWN, can we please stop it here?
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:45 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (3 responses)
Thanks.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 22:34 UTC (Tue)
by bgmarete (guest, #47484)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 22:34 UTC (Tue) by bgmarete (guest, #47484) [Link] (2 responses)
Citizenship is an inherently political issue. And in an international forum, the politics will be of an international nature, of course :-)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 22:42 UTC (Tue)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link] (1 responses)
In fact, I debated posting the story for a fair while before deciding that it would be of interest. And it has clearly been of interest. That said, I still don't think that means I necessarily set us up for an extended discussion on the merits of various national governments, death penalty rates, etc. Such things happen, and I let it run for a fair while before I said anything; now I'm simply suggesting that we've done enough.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 22:42 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (1 responses)
Are you disagreeing with that?
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 19:18 UTC (Thu)
by bgmarete (guest, #47484)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 19:18 UTC (Thu) by bgmarete (guest, #47484) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:56 UTC (Tue)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:56 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (5 responses)
The fact of him willfully pledging allegiance to the by far most oppressive state on this planet...
What universe are you living in? Yes, there are many, many things I don't like about the US government or US policies. But come on! It's in a whole different league compared to the really nasty countries like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran, etc.
The US, for all of its warts, is still a free country. It tends to oppress people outside the US, but is relatively decent to its citizens.
You can see this in the free market of migration. Lots of people emigrate from repressive countries to the US. Very few people leave the US for China, Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. unless it's for family reasons.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:17 UTC (Tue)
by Doogie (guest, #59626)
[Link] (4 responses)
It's in a whole different league compared to the really nasty countries like Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran, etc.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:17 UTC (Tue) by Doogie (guest, #59626) [Link] (4 responses)
How exactly do you know this? If you are like most people who "know" these countries are "evil", then you learned it through the mainstream press who uncritically report on what politicians and talking heads say. The same press that uncritically reported Saddam Hussein was a direct and immediate threat to the USA.
This is not to say that those are great places to live, but the people who do live there are not inherently evil, they are most likely simply undereducated and misinformed, something that we in the "Civilized West" are increasingly falling for as well.
The world is not black and white, and our treatment of issues around human rights and democracy need to reflect that fact. The same thing needs to be understood by people who knee-jerk anti-American sentiment as well.
It tends to oppress people outside the US...
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:36 UTC (Tue)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:36 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (3 responses)
How exactly do you know this?
Because I read and keep myself informed and don't block outside information for ideological reasons. Let's take Saudi Arabia, for instance. There is nothing like the abuses recorded at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_saudi_arabia in the United States. (I'll go out on a limb here and guess that you're a man, because any woman would know for sure that Saudi Arabia is one of the worst places in the world.)
Now look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_north_korea. Do you claim that "Torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, public executions, extra judicial and arbitrary detention, the absence of due process and the rule of law, imposition of the death penalty for political reasons, the existence of a large number of prison camps and the extensive use of forced labour" are problems in the United States?
This is not to say that those are great places to live, but the people who do live there are not inherently evil
I never said the people were inherently evil. But an Islamic theocracy as in Saudi Arabia is inherently evil. And totalitarian communism as in North Korea is inherently evil. On the other hand, the principles of freedom and democracy upon which the United States was founded are inherently good even if you think the US government has not done a good job living up to those principles.
To put it another way: Saudi Arabia and North Korea have inherently evil systems of government that cannot be made good unless the systems are completely overhauled. The United States has an inherently good system of government that can (alas) be corrupted by bad people.
There's no question that the United States is a far better place to live than most other countries on Earth. The US ranks decently on the press freedom index (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Freedom_Index) and the freedom house list (http://www.freedomhouse.org/uploads/fiw08launch/FIW08Tables.pdf)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:47 UTC (Tue)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link] (2 responses)
This discussion has been surprisingly calm, polite, and reasoned, given the subject matter. But it is somewhat off-topic for LWN. Maybe we could all agree that the points have been made and we go back to our usual business of flaming distributors? :)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:47 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link] (2 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:37 UTC (Wed)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:37 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link] (1 responses)
"No, Redhat tortures more code."
"But Canonical's software imprisonment record is appalling."
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:43 UTC (Wed)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link]
But how can you even think to compare any of that with the death penalty applied to systemd in F14? Clearly Fedora is by far the most repressive of them all, and anybody who installs it is clearly endorsing that evil.
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:43 UTC (Wed) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]
:)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 20:58 UTC (Tue)
by sooner (guest, #70116)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 20:58 UTC (Tue) by sooner (guest, #70116) [Link] (2 responses)
USA most popular country?
Posted Sep 16, 2010 13:53 UTC (Thu)
by morhippo (subscriber, #334)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 13:53 UTC (Thu) by morhippo (subscriber, #334) [Link]
Just because most US Americans have not been outside of their own (or god's own?) country and are being fed patriotic news and propaganda all the time does not make the US the most popular country outside of the USA. If you look at the reactions in this international news site, you may notice that many people have a very critical view of the USA and prefer to live elsewhere.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 21, 2010 12:35 UTC (Tue)
by nye (subscriber, #51576)
[Link]
Posted Sep 21, 2010 12:35 UTC (Tue) by nye (subscriber, #51576) [Link]
*plonk*
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:02 UTC (Mon)
by sturmflut (guest, #38256)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:02 UTC (Mon) by sturmflut (guest, #38256) [Link] (2 responses)
But they would've probably just have given him one if he asked, and he can even keep the finnish one.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:07 UTC (Mon)
by Trelane (subscriber, #56877)
[Link]
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:07 UTC (Mon) by Trelane (subscriber, #56877) [Link]
Answer: maybe or maybe not, and not prior to 2003 unless prior to May 31, 2008 resumption of citizenship was requested.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 0:48 UTC (Wed)
by dfsmith (guest, #20302)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 0:48 UTC (Wed) by dfsmith (guest, #20302) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:15 UTC (Mon)
by yokem_55 (guest, #10498)
[Link]
Posted Sep 13, 2010 21:15 UTC (Mon) by yokem_55 (guest, #10498) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 8:56 UTC (Tue)
by aorth (subscriber, #55260)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 8:56 UTC (Tue) by aorth (subscriber, #55260) [Link]
I like running vanilla kernels, but there are certainly lots of patchsets out there which tweak CPU schedulers, IO schedulers, swappiness, etc in the name of responsiveness. See:
http://pf-kernel.org.ua/
http://zen-kernel.org/
http://users.on.net/~ckolivas/kernel/
Hopefully these patches get into 2.6.36. It seems like Linus and Ingo at least are willing to address it right now. Hell, Linus even said that "our X behavior under load is pitiful."
Cheers
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:13 UTC (Tue)
by aryonoco (guest, #55563)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 10:13 UTC (Tue) by aryonoco (guest, #55563) [Link] (1 responses)
I'm sure the US is a better place for having him as one of its citizens, and Linus a proud man for having adopted this country as his own.
And as a non-US citizen who is mostly critical of current US policies, yet thinks of the US as a great nation and its Founding Fathers as geniuses of their time, I'm appalled by the level of commentary on this story. I hold lwn and its readership to higher standards.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 7:10 UTC (Thu)
by Felix.Braun (guest, #3032)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 7:10 UTC (Thu) by Felix.Braun (guest, #3032) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:10 UTC (Tue)
by Janne (guest, #40891)
[Link] (24 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 12:10 UTC (Tue) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link] (24 responses)
Could someone explain to us non-USians what that is? You need to register in order to be eligible to vote? Huh? In Finland you get a paper at election-times that basically says "you are eligible to vote in this election". On voting-day you go to the polling-station and vote whoever you want to vote for. It's as simple as that. And all that happens automatically without any registration.
What is the rationale behind this system? To me this seems as an unneeded step that only results in fewer people voting.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:21 UTC (Tue)
by rbetts@gweep.net (subscriber, #21779)
[Link] (5 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:21 UTC (Tue) by rbetts@gweep.net (subscriber, #21779) [Link] (5 responses)
Election ballots are combinations of city/town, county, state and federal offices. There are a *lot* of elected officials in the US.
Political parties play a substantial role in organizing and executing elections (and in organizing the affairs of constitutional bodies - which are often not specified in any great detail constitutionally or legislatively). For an example specific to elections, in most states, political parties are responsible for nominating and supplying poll workers. Our parties certainly look raucous and crazy from afar (and they are), but they have many practical responsibilities which might be harder to notice at a distance.
In Finland, if you receive a paper that allows you to vote, how does the paper-issuer know which address to send the paper to (if you have more than one residence). Or, in general, how does the issuer know where you live to send even a single paper? Or how many eligible residents there at each dwelling? It seems some registration somewhere must be necessary to issue accurate voting permits.
I apologize for the off-topic comment - I'm proud to be a US citizen and hopefully sharing a few simple details might offset in some gentle way the ugly name calling that occurs above..
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:50 UTC (Tue)
by damic (guest, #7275)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:50 UTC (Tue) by damic (guest, #7275) [Link] (1 responses)
In Sweden we have a Civil registry that is maintained by our Tax Agency so that they can tax you correct. That seems to always be the top priority of any government to get the taxes. :)
Anyway, since for taxation purposes we have a Civil registry that is also used when voting. It is kept up to date and when it it time to vote, the government simply runs a query in the register to get the name and address of everyone that is eligible to vote.
If we temporary move a short period we simply ask for our post to be forwarded to the temporary address (done on internet in a few minutes), and the same thing is also done when moving permanently.
I recently moved to México, I registered that with the Swedish tax-agency in order to not be taxed in Sweden. And 3 weeks ago I got my voting papers for the 19th of September election in Sweden sent to my México address, I went to the Swedish embassy in México with my ID and voted. The whole thing took a total of 3 minutes at the embassy.
Granted, Sweden only have around 9 million citizens, so I guess we can do things not possible in other bigger nations. But it is pretty convenient. :)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 3:31 UTC (Wed)
by njs (subscriber, #40338)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 3:31 UTC (Wed) by njs (subscriber, #40338) [Link]
Oh, and IIRC it's pretty much legal to just make up the name you want to use when registering for these databases.
The USA's ways of doing things are all very... historically contingent.
Electors
Posted Sep 14, 2010 21:53 UTC (Tue)
by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 21:53 UTC (Tue) by tialaramex (subscriber, #21167) [Link] (2 responses)
In Britain every residence gets sent paperwork about once a year, and in any case before a major election. The envelope has an address but no name, and insists you open it and not redirect it under any circumstances. Inside is a list of people who are currently registered at that address. If the list is fine you can fill out a web form, call a phone number, or send back the form with just a signature.
Otherwise you correct the list, removing anyone who is no longer living there and adding new people, then post it back. If an election is held the latest register is used, everybody who can vote is sent a card telling them about the election, and fractions of the list are sent to every district. You don't need the card to vote, you just tell the officials your name and address, they give you a ballot and write the number of the ballot next to your name on their list.
Lying on the form, or at the election itself, is possible, and clearly sometimes happens, but with turnout so low it's difficult to justify any system which would reduce participation further, e.g. requiring ID to vote (although this is done in Northern Ireland where vote fraud had become endemic).
Electors
Posted Sep 15, 2010 16:12 UTC (Wed)
by sorpigal (guest, #36106)
[Link] (1 responses)
How do they get a list of all addresses which are residences? Seems like someone would have to know ever building address in the country and whether or not someone lives there. P
Posted Sep 15, 2010 16:12 UTC (Wed) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link] (1 responses)
Electors
Posted Sep 15, 2010 20:39 UTC (Wed)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 20:39 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Voter registration
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:23 UTC (Tue)
by corbet (editor, #1)
[Link]
The notion of "residency" in the US is rather fuzzier than it is in many other parts of the world; cities, for example, have no sort of list of who is resident there. So getting on the list of people who are entitled to vote in a given location requires registration.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:23 UTC (Tue) by corbet (editor, #1) [Link]
Registration has seen as an obstacle to voting by some people, which why efforts have been made (on the Democratic side especially) to make registration easy. In a lot of places, it can be done simultaneously with getting a driver's license.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:26 UTC (Tue)
by felixfix (subscriber, #242)
[Link] (3 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:26 UTC (Tue) by felixfix (subscriber, #242) [Link] (3 responses)
Personally, I think anyone who wants to vote should be able to, no ID, just dip a finger in indelible ink so you can't vote again. Even multiple voting wouldn't bother me much, since if everybody can multiply vote, that also would even out. I figure if an election is so close that either would make a difference, then it's pretty much a tossup anyway.
How does it work in Finland the first time -- does the government simply track people and know when they turn 18 (or whatever the voting age is)?
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:15 UTC (Tue)
by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:15 UTC (Tue) by mpr22 (subscriber, #60784) [Link] (1 responses)
I don't know about Finland, but in the UK, local authorities (at the borough / city / district level) are responsible for distributing electoral registration forms to every household in the area on an annual basis. It is a legal requirement for someone in the household to fill the form in accurately, listing all persons-entitled-to-vote (including those who will become entitled to vote some time in the next twelve months) in the household and return it to the local authority.
If you change address during the year, you're supposed to notify the relevant electoral registration officers in the place you move from and the place you move to; your registration is updated accordingly.
The electoral register is also used as the list of persons from which jury pools will be selected. Some persons eligible to vote are not eligible for jury service; there are tickyboxes on the form for purposes of indicating such persons.
In recent years, there's been a convenient innovation: the form is issued with last years details pre-printed. If there are no changes required, you can confirm your household's registration by phoning a certain telephone number and keying in the unique identifying number printed on the form. (You can also do this via a web site; a letter-based check code is additionally required in this case.)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:30 UTC (Wed)
by nix (subscriber, #2304)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 19:30 UTC (Wed) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:53 UTC (Tue)
by Janne (guest, #40891)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 17:53 UTC (Tue) by Janne (guest, #40891) [Link]
We have Local Register Offices that maintains databases of citizens. When you are born, you are registered in the database. If you move, you need to notify the Register Office of your new address. All in all, the process is quite seamless.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:37 UTC (Tue)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (12 responses)
I guess that the US -unlike many European countries- does not have a centralized (multi purpose) database where each and every citizen needs to register its home address. So you need to register with the local "voting" office in advance, as well as several other independent offices to make use of their (public) services.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 13:37 UTC (Tue) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link] (12 responses)
If you wish to have high turn out rates in elections you should make use of compulsory voting which will make loads of people show up even if the penalties are extremely low (e.g. in Brazil the fine costs as much as a local bus ticket, and elections always have at least 80% turn out).
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:59 UTC (Tue)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (11 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 14:59 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (11 responses)
If you wish to have high turn out rates in elections you should make use of compulsory voting
That's a bad idea. Forcing people to vote doesn't necessarily improve the quality of the decision. People should have the right to choose not to vote if they don't want to. Why make them go through the whole exercise just to spoil their ballot?
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 15:56 UTC (Tue)
by fb (guest, #53265)
[Link] (10 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 15:56 UTC (Tue) by fb (guest, #53265) [Link] (10 responses)
Because it stimulates people to think about and to take part in political issues, and because it makes voter suppression a lot harder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression.
A person that -for any reason- choses not to vote can just go there and cast a "blank/null" vote.
There are plenty of good reasons for it,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting#Arguments_...
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:29 UTC (Tue)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link] (9 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 16:29 UTC (Tue) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link] (9 responses)
Because it stimulates people to think about and to take part in political issues
How do you know that? Maybe people just vote randomly to avoid the penalties.
it makes voter suppression a lot harder
Is voter suppression a real problem in the US? (It isn't in Canada, and I don't think it is nowadays in the US.)
There are plenty of good reasons for it,
The Wikipedia article gives plenty of reasons. I don't think they're all good reasons, though. Many of them are just assertions without any data to back them up.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:48 UTC (Tue)
by deepfire (guest, #26138)
[Link] (4 responses)
How do you know that? Maybe people just vote randomly to avoid the penalties.
Posted Sep 14, 2010 19:48 UTC (Tue) by deepfire (guest, #26138) [Link] (4 responses)
Well, as the parent poster suggested, blank/null ballots remove the point of random voting in avoidance of penalties, and they still do provide meaningful input.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 16:18 UTC (Wed)
by sorpigal (guest, #36106)
[Link] (3 responses)
A blank ballot in a compulsory system provides the same input as a non-vote in a non-compulsory system, so there is no gain.
Posted Sep 15, 2010 16:18 UTC (Wed) by sorpigal (guest, #36106) [Link] (3 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 14:34 UTC (Thu)
by cesarb (subscriber, #6266)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 16, 2010 14:34 UTC (Thu) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link] (2 responses)
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 18:24 UTC (Thu)
by Velmont (guest, #46433)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 16, 2010 18:24 UTC (Thu) by Velmont (guest, #46433) [Link] (1 responses)
Anyway, I think mandatory voting is quite cool. And I hope lots would actually vote blank then, that would be a REAL kick in the ass of the politicians and the system.
Our system in Norway is quite good and democratic, although it's not good enough, it's too strategic (although not as much as some other countries *cough*UK *cough*US).
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 20:33 UTC (Thu)
by cesarb (subscriber, #6266)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 20:33 UTC (Thu) by cesarb (subscriber, #6266) [Link]
No idea (other than the number of keypress "beeps" from the machine is then the same as a valid vote). I hear from time to time rumors that it makes a difference when counting the votes, but never saw any reliable information about whether its true or which difference it makes.
I think it was made that way because back when you had paper ballots you could either leave it blank or invalidate it (marking multiple candidates, for instance), and they wanted to keep the same possibilities on the electronic voting machines.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 23:06 UTC (Tue)
by klbrun (subscriber, #45083)
[Link]
Posted Sep 14, 2010 23:06 UTC (Tue) by klbrun (subscriber, #45083) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 14, 2010 23:13 UTC (Tue)
by AndreE (guest, #60148)
[Link] (2 responses)
Posted Sep 14, 2010 23:13 UTC (Tue) by AndreE (guest, #60148) [Link] (2 responses)
This year in Australia the informal vote was 1%, probably the highest ever, and that was because of an orchestrated campaign to vote informal, and because the two main parties were both shit.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 15, 2010 11:03 UTC (Wed)
by dskoll (subscriber, #1630)
[Link]
Posted Sep 15, 2010 11:03 UTC (Wed) by dskoll (subscriber, #1630) [Link]
OK, but I still don't see any evidence that compulsory voting improves outcomes. I looked at the list of countries on Wikipedia that enforce compulsory voting, and by any measure I can think of (freedom index, human development, economic indexes, etc.) they don't seem to be better off than countries that don't enforce compulsory voting.
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 18:26 UTC (Thu)
by Velmont (guest, #46433)
[Link]
Posted Sep 16, 2010 18:26 UTC (Thu) by Velmont (guest, #46433) [Link]
Citizen Linus
Posted Sep 16, 2010 17:27 UTC (Thu)
by klossner (subscriber, #30046)
[Link]
He didn't have to go anywhere. In Oregon, you can register to vote without leaving your computer.
Posted Sep 16, 2010 17:27 UTC (Thu) by klossner (subscriber, #30046) [Link]
Know who I'm feeling for?
Posted Sep 19, 2010 2:05 UTC (Sun)
by kena (subscriber, #2735)
[Link] (1 responses)
Posted Sep 19, 2010 2:05 UTC (Sun) by kena (subscriber, #2735) [Link] (1 responses)
Know who I'm feeling for?
Posted Sep 23, 2010 12:01 UTC (Thu)
by i3839 (guest, #31386)
[Link]
Posted Sep 23, 2010 12:01 UTC (Thu) by i3839 (guest, #31386) [Link]
posts anything non-technical a lot more than Jon does.