ThinkPad SL Series
For those of you wondering why the silence on this blog over the last two weeks despite the biggest ThinkPad announcements yet this year, there is no conspiracy involved. I took two weeks of vacation and had it planned long before the announcement date was set.
Upon coming back and reading my colleague David Hill’s blog post, I fear our ThinkPad SL is taking an undeserved beating in the comments and wanted to write a few words of my own on the topic. Don’t worry; I have plenty to say in the weeks to come about switchable graphics, the new T and X Series, improved power management, and the like. We’ll get to those in good time.
To read the comments on David’s post, we are polluting the brand, driving cheapness and shoddy construction through this conduit of machines. Run and buy every ThinkPad you can see on eBay right now because the end is nigh.
Um, yeah.
If anyone believes this and wants to pay a premium for my used T60 sitting at my desk, go ahead and send me a check. As soon as it clears, I’ll FedEx you a slightly used, twice spilled upon, cracked corner, but still in otherwise serviceable-shape machine.
My point is this: Don’t panic. If you are a loyal ThinkPad T or X Series user, we have not impacted those systems with the announcement of the ThinkPad SL Series. The ThinkPad SL has physical and component elements more in line with those who may be running a small business or home office. It is not meant to take away anything from the master ThinkPad brand, but use that brand to launch a new series that for the first time is truly focused on small business users vs. just configuring an R or T somewhat differently. If you a Lenovo 3000 or R series user today, this machine may in fact be the right machine for you.
Let me take a minute to explain a bit more about the “small business” market.
Go into any retail business shop selling PCs anywhere in the world. Notice the attributes of the machines you see. Shiny. Colors. Glossy. High end multimedia features. I dare even say “bling.” Then look at the customers buying there. There are plenty of consumers buying for home, of course, but what many people don’t realize is that of the millions and millions of small businesses in the world, most do not just go to a .com site and purchase 5 or 10 machines. They buy from the same stores that they buy the rest of their office supplies. They feel comfortable knowing that they have a physical person that they can yell at if things go wrong, and many of these places have more liberal return policies than you’ll find on any internet site.
Many small business owners also have their personal and business lives on a single machine. That same notebook that holds accounts receivable also holds home movies, pictures of grandma, and their entire .mp3 collection. For many of them, the lines of work and pleasure blur considerably, and they have to have a machine that will work with both the attributes of a business as well as a home notebook. Thus, it needs to still be somewhat conservative looking for business situations, but have great speakers and multimedia features for off-hours for when the kids are using it to play games.
Our target market for the ThinkPad SL is not multi-national corporation XYZ, but Joe’s Flower Shop. Joe’s Flower Shop has some important other needs as well. Unlike XYZ, he doesn’t have a dedicated team of help desk people that he can call when things go wrong with his system. He doesn’t have corporate virus scanners, Cisco VPNs, or centralized backup strategies. He’s more likely to ask “What’s a backup strategy?” A key part of the ThinkPad SL experience is for Lenovo to help customers fill in those gaps by providing services that they are not large enough to provide for themselves.
These include accidental damage protection and warranty upgrades – for when the standard warranty isn’t enough. Joe’s Flowers doesn’t have time to deal with waiting multiple days to get his PC up and running. As a business owner, Joe has to worry about his business, not wasting a lot of time with consumer help desk queues. ThinkPad SL also has Complete IT as an offering that is a total outsourced help desk for Joe. He can call one number and get priority routing to Level 2 technicians, support for 3rd party software he installed on his machine, initiate those critical backups and the like. It’s the help desk he cannot afford to maintain himself.
There are some other questions in the comments, such as why call it a ThinkPad when it clearly is a replacement for the Lenovo 3000 series? In some ways ThinkPad SL is a replacement for the Lenovo 3000 Series and in some ways it isn’t. Lenovo rolled out the 3000 series just after we became a unified company and used the 2006 Olympics as our launch vehicle. To meet this aggressive time schedule, we had to make compromises, chief among them that we never did much of the design for the 3000 series ourselves. Most of it was done by 3rd party contract manufacturers. This gave us the advantage of speed, but left the 3000 line lacking for many people. ThinkPad SL is different than the 3000 series because we designed the ThinkPad SL series ourselves using ThinkPad engineers. This meant that we used the same rock-solid design principles as other ThinkPad notebooks. Indeed, it doesn’t have Roll Cages nor drainage systems, but it does have technologies like the Active Protection System and goes through the same testing as the rest of the ThinkPad family. The hinges may not be large and external, but they ARE steel and are designed to hold up to the rigors of usage. The ThinkPad SL series is worthy of the ThinkPad moniker because it IS a ThinkPad through and through.
Another point often brought up is why not just include more multimedia features like HDMI and Blu-Ray in the T, R, or X Series lineup? Though it sounds arrogant to say it (and I really don’t mean it that way), our target market for ThinkPad T and X series just won’t pay for them. We always appreciate our very vocal and very important ThinkPad loyalists here, but you represent a very small portion of our target market for ThinkPads. Though YOU would be willing to pay for IPS screens, HDMI, and multimedia card readers, the multinational companies that pay the light bills will not. They quibble over a dollar in cost (times 10,000 machines) and see card readers as a security risk, HDMI ports as superfluous, and IPS screens as unnecessary for workers to simply get their jobs done. That said, we are not ignoring this segment of the market, but unfortunately that’s all I can say until announcement time.
Don’t see the ThinkPad SL Series as a threat to your T Series. See it as a way for us to sell ThinkPad notebooks to others who previously would not have considered us before. Ultimately, our growing our market allows us to funnel even more money into research and development which means more innovation all around for ALL of our notebooks.
Epic Games uses Lenovo ThinkStation workstations
Lenovo ThinkStation C20/C20X & Financial Services
Lenovo ThinkServer technology makeover (Abbott House)
Lenovo ThinkServer technology makeover (AGM and ESAC)
July 25th, 2008 1:00 pm
[Admin note: I manually inserted this comment at the top of the comment stack]
Thanks to everyone who has visited this post and shared their comments below. Make sure you check out our new blog dedicated to Small Business, Roaring Mouse. Join blogger Brandon Hoe in talking about SMB related topics and products, including the ThinkPad SL.
July 25th, 2008 1:10 pm
ah! so gimme that SL with 200GB SATA 7200RPM, with blu-ray, HDMI and 4:3 IPS screen now please
July 25th, 2008 1:25 pm
Yes, I consider the release of new ThinkPad SL/T/R/X series as a way for me to get T61 with a half price in ebay! Anyhow I do thank you for all ThinkPad guys out there for making such a fantastic laptop to work for.
July 25th, 2008 1:36 pm
That cracked corner on your T60…..does Lenovo see those a lot?
The reason I bring it up is I’ve had 3 or 4 Thinkpads and love them. The only problem i’ve had with them is bezel cracks at the right front corner. I think this is because after you have a Thinkpad for a while you tend to grab to lift the open laptop by the corner and move it. So now the entire weight of the laptop is being carried by a corner of plastic. Maybe you should make that corner stronger!
July 25th, 2008 2:07 pm
Adam,
It’s because I dropped it. We generally don’t see a whole lot of cracked plastic unless it is abuse (and I am not implying that you abused your system).
July 25th, 2008 2:45 pm
so now if someones asks for a good laptop i have to say “buy thinkpad but not the SL one, you should write it down, that’s not really a thinkpad”
July 25th, 2008 2:47 pm
re: crack. Fair enough.
Truthfully I’ve never noticed the *start* of the crack so its hard to be sure of the original cause, just the common location.
July 25th, 2008 3:49 pm
Matt,
I agree with everything you have said, but I refuse to accept your claim that the SL is a “true” thinkpad. Sure it does have design elements borrowed from the classic bento-box design, but no way is it a thinkpad “through and through.” I am not calling it a bad laptop, but I am questioning the decison to call it a thinkpad. I hope I am clear in what I ask.
You have put forwared some excellent points regarding the needs of a small business user, but from what I have seen personally, this particular single-laptop-owning segment does not CARE what brand they own. They don’t want amazing features and will not pay amazing prices. They want a cheap functioning machine that works. They’ll happily buy ideapads or 3000 series (or thinkpads for that matter) if the price is right. The SL is a good machine to cover this part of the market, but you have to remember that the segment you target is not the one that gets the latest and the greatest. They will not replace thier machines every 2 years.
The R series was never what SL is going to be in terms of price, simply because R was a lower cost T. The R and T shared many components including motherboards, sometimes R even had features that the T series did not (firewire for example). And recently, with the R60/R61 series the difference between the R and T has blurred a lot, and except for a few points they are virtually identical in appearance, design and sometimes even price (which I don’t understand). The few of us who have been so vocal in David’s blog about the SL are enthusiasts like me who don’t want to see the name used in vain even one single time. There is a certain quality we all attribute to the thinkpad name – quality keyboards, robust functional design without the “bling”, state-of-the-art feature set (yaay to displayport on the new machines!) and above all, the legendary quality. I am not saying that the SL is a poor quality laptop, but with the prices advertised for it, I don’t see how they can have the SAME quality as our beloved black boxes. They do not (and cannot, for the price) have a 7-row keyboard or a rollcage or many other things we see in regular thinkpads … so the question naturally arises: is this really a thinkpad?
YOu people knew about this, which is why you have a 6-row keyboard in it – the target users don’t care. This is also why there is no thinklight or rollcage or dual screen latches. David’s post was infuriating in the sense that it did not talk about any design features that helped reduce the cost of making the SL, and how it really did not change anything with the traditioanl R/T/X. Instead, the focus was on a stupid red LED that pulses … for a ‘design’ blog, that post was weak and the readers (including me) showed how disappointed they were both with the article and SL.
The only acceptable reasoning behind Lenovo’s decison to call this a thinkpad, in my guess, is this: you market the SL series as a low cost thinkpad and a “small” business buys it. As they grow and expand, thier computing needs increase and they’ll probably buy higher end thinkpads (again) since the SL has been good so far and they are happy with the brand. Or even if they don’t expand as much, they’ll still buy SL as they are happy with the prices. Am I on the right track here?
I am OK with lenovo selling more thinkpads, infact I am all for it … I personally own many thinkpads and so far, I have not looked at any other brand. I stretched my budget out for my new T60 (all my other machines, ranging from a 380ED/600X to a A31p were bought used) and even with my small student savings, I will NOT buy (or recommend) an SL because I don’t see it as a thinkpad – it is just another laptop with new features and a lower price. You can get a real (used/refurbished but current) thinkpad with great features at the prices of the SL today and that will be more than powerful to help average joe who sells flowers.
July 25th, 2008 5:24 pm
I am big time fan of the *Original* Thinkpad series. But I think the brand has lost it’s shine with since Lenovo acquired it. Compare the quality of T60p Vs the T60 series laptop with widescreen. You can clearly see the drop in quality. There was also a change in quality from T43p to T60p but that was not so noticeable.
I understand that new components might need new case designs and what not. But what bothers me is that T60p [non-wide screen] can not be purchased now. I love this machine and would like my future machine to be the same or similar [build quality].
July 25th, 2008 5:27 pm
In most of the things I’d agree with gator.
The key issue most of us have is obviously in difficulty to reconcile the brand we know and SL. I understand that you – Lenovo – have explored the market segment you want to approach; no matter what I think about some explanations and this “small business” label, it’s in the end up to you how you use your brand, wisely or not. The question is, apart from exploiting the name and justifying it with an extra service which could have just been an option, why do you consider SL to be “Thinkpad”? There are other cheap notebooks, some of them are black, some of them, at least until recently, even had trackpoints. What is “Thinkpad” in SL? And what will someone think that “Thinkpad” is because of SL?
July 25th, 2008 5:59 pm
I can understand withholding HDMI and Blu-Ray, for those can be added on via USB and ExpressCard, but IPS screens would be so nice and can’t be added on without considerable expense by the end user. SXGA IPS on the X series (and WSXGA on the T series) would get my purchase/recommendation every time.
Unlike HDMI and (possibly) Blu-Ray, IPS would not (to my knowledge) require a case/mobo redesign. On the plus side, most laptop manufacturers do not sell IPS screens (especially in 4:3 ratio) and Lenovo’s doing so would tap a heretofore untapped niche. I know we’re a small market, but we would be willing to pay a premium for what constitutes a minor technical challenge.
July 25th, 2008 7:42 pm
I second the opinion of many though that all the different lines become muddled, if not in features and build, at least in the mind, by sheer multitude. The strategy of Dell and others seems to work for them, that they have their “budget” lines and “business” lines with clearly defined monikers. The Vostro hasn’t been out long, but people who follow the industry at all already associate that name with Dell’s dollar menu. If they want to buy Dell (or must due to company policy, deep regrets, I feel your pain) they can automatically steer themselves toward Latitudes or Precisions.
Lenovo seems to recognize this with the IdeaPad (and the 3000 may have been an attempt, but a number isn’t a name), but I personally think it would make more sense for this laptop to take up another pedestal than the ThinkPad name, because by everyone’s admission it is of a different class – whether lesser or not perhaps of opinion, but different nonetheless. The difference between R and T (and X, if they come out with a rumored X400) is already so apparently slight that throwing more letters in the mix makes it hard for buyers who don’t have the time or knowledge to dig deep for specs.
Lenovo can sell a product, grow their market share and revenue, without riding the “ThinkPad” brand pony to do it. Only those who know what a ThinkPad is cares what it’s called. The walk-up customers in Best Buy who will look at this machine aren’t going to swipe their card because it’s passed as a ThinkPad, and the people who LOOK for a ThinkPad will wonder what this thing is doing there (as they are here).
July 25th, 2008 9:16 pm
The only reason to call the new SL series a ThinkPad is the fact that it has a TrackPoint. Not a subtle joke, I’m being perfectly serious here.
After all the features that we’ve lost in the last couple of years (IPS, 4:3 format, stereo recording capabilities), I’m not very optimistic about the future of the ThinkPad name when I see the SL series. Now we get the “widescreen special” keyboard…shape of things to come?
I’m sure these are fine machines. But ThinkPads they’re not, not in my eyes anyway. And I’ve never owned anything BUT a ThinkPad.
July 26th, 2008 4:58 am
I agree with a lot of what’s been said (especially with gator and a few others), but at the same time I do see why it’s being done.
I would think it’s logical to have the SL series be more clearly marketed as the budget line, if only to avoid customer confusion. You could make an argument either way (that it’s being marketed towards the low-end, or that it’s not being marketed enough as a low-end machine).
Lenovo clearly knows how to handle this, with the IdeaPad – it’s a different series, with different marketing, but at the same time it’s a good play on the legacy of the ThinkPad.
I will say this – those who think that the ThinkPad brand has gone downhill since Lenovo acquired it have not handled a ThinkPad X300. There was a rough transition with the T40s and early T60s, but that was to be expected. The X300, in my opinion, is getting the ThinkPad brand back on track.
I very much look forward to getting my hands on a Tablet version of the X200, because if the X200 is able to utilize some of the features developed for the X300, I think it will help re-invent the 12-inch portion of the ThinkPad line.
July 26th, 2008 5:02 am
SL has already come to fruit, so people let it be. If it is as unworthy as some people have analysed it to be, then it would by most probability just fade away due to the sheer lack of sales. It is arguable whether Porsche Cayanne is really a Porsche in its origin or just a cheap market grab, but the bottom line is it sells. It is a tough market out there, there is just not enough Thinkpad loyalists out there for Lenovo to simply mark a healthy profit from and compete for the top dog status in the computer industry.
July 26th, 2008 5:30 am
IMO there is not enough substance in the SL Series to be called “Thinkpad”.
It breaks nearly all design and brand concepts associated with previous
Thinkpad models.
An IT/Software care sercive is nice, but does not need to be limited to the
SL-series.
From the experience I made with warranty services and ePack extensions
I’m very skeptic, that Lenovo would be able to provide a Complete IT Service
remotely at this low price to the extends advertised here.
I wonder if this advertised service would also support Linux software ?
Interpreting the actions taken, Lenovo is going torwards the mass market,
leaving behind or slowly diluting the qualities to the Thinkpad brand.
I guess this will bring short term profits, but in the long term this will cause more
damage than benefit, because Acer and Dell are better in this sector.
Why not continuing the Thinkpad line in the classic sense and as best of class,
and in parallel Lenovo could offer IdeaPads, OfficePads, XyzPads, … , Thinkstations.
Everyone would know what he’s in for and could choose between the brands
according to his needs … without needing to know, oh yes SL is a Thinkpad, BUT…
Or looking at it from another angle, a little experiment of thought.
Imagine Panasonic would build a black, rubberized ToughBook with
classic 7-row keyboard including Trackpoint and 4:3 IPS LCD.
They would design it with the same esprit as the mobile phone manufactures,
they would produce it in their own factory and offer really good service.
Many people who are currently the base of the good Thinkpad image would
buy it, and in the long term this also would attract more customers.
Given that I’m sure, you could quickly rename several Thinkpads-forums in
Toughbooks-forum.
My last hope is that new Thinkpad for the 4:3/IPS/HDMI segment
you mentioned in the blog-post.
July 26th, 2008 9:07 am
I agree with not including HDMI, Blu-Ray. If you are looking at Thinkpads in the first place, you shouldn’t be wanting those features. Go buy a Sony or Dell if you must have them.
I think the the question in regards with the SL seris is: What would IBM have done? The answer: They certainly would not have come out with a “Thinkpad” such as the SL, they would even sell the brand if they have to, instead of giving in to cheap-current-laptop-trends.
We all knew this was coming right when IBM decided to bail out. They simply were saving their faces because the competition is harder and harder, especially when you are selling quailty over cheapness in a market of cheapness. What to do? What to do? Sell the whole brand, and let them get sucked into the whirlpool. SL is only the tip of the tide.
July 26th, 2008 12:18 pm
i think the problem is this : calling it a thinkpad doesn’t make it a thinkpad, in the same way as telling everyone you’re called Cassio Hui doesn’t make you become me.
July 26th, 2008 7:27 pm
The only problem I have with this notebook is the name ThinkPad which means IBM’s top quality almost indestructible black Unshiny laptop with the best keyboard ever which the SL notebook doesn’t have just rename it Ideapad or something else and we we’ll be ok with it this thing is not a ThinkPad.
July 26th, 2008 10:07 pm
Matt,
We ARE a vocal bunch, but thanks for taking the time to further explain the SL series.
July 27th, 2008 4:43 am
Matt, IBM was losing money due to the fact it was fully focused on the corporate market and neglecting the normal consumer market. While HP and Dell is both growing in the corporate and consumer market, with mostly better specced and priced machines. While quality do suffer with these lower costs laptop offered by HP and Dell, but to most of the consumer whom are not loaded with cash, the choice was clear. Large corporations were and still are on the hunt for savings throughout their organisations, whether it is from computer equipments or cutting back on employee numbers. The current unstable economic environment that is provailing throughout the world is still going to push large multinational corporation into cost saving modes.
So the bottom line is if a corporation can save a couple millions dollar a year from procuring computers/laptops from alternative vendors with similar spec and comparable warranty/service they would do it.
IBM was losing a lot of money with the thinkpads due to the inflexible sales structure as compared to HP or even Dell.
Lenovo is doing a good thing, by offering everyone whether a corporation to a cash strapped student a chance to purchase a Thinkpad laptop. Unlike IBM, Lenovo don’t have a diverse business structure, it pretty much has to derive all the profit from the computer business. And right now Lenovo is trailing behind HP and Dell in terms of market share, so unless it can diverse its offering and capture a larger market share, than it most likely wouldn’t grow very much.
July 27th, 2008 8:34 am
I think a lot of PC manufacturers have, historically, been a little inept at delineating the lines and models within their offering. Dell are now getting a lot better at it, but still have a way to go, I believe. Apple – predictably, when it comes to marketing – is best in class here. (Also, interestingly, Apple’s strategy is very similar to the one once employed by IBM – a small number of models, each with a distinctly different focus, but widely configurable. I think Lenovo’s including the screen size in the name of the model is confusing and pointless. But this is not precisely the point of my post, and I digress.)
I don’t think anyone’s saying Lenovo shouldn’t have manufactured this laptop. I don’t think anyone’s even saying it’s a particularly bad laptop – I’m sure it’s a lot better than most of the garbage Hewlett-Packard churn out. What we are saying is that it doesn’t belong in the ThinkPad line. I, for one, was very heartened by the launch of the IdeaPad concept. As someone mentioned above, it looked like Lenovo really understood what they were doing and were intelligently partitioning their products in such a way that their more affordable offerings could benefit from the association with their premium line, but remain distinct.
In the comments on David’s post and this one, most of the flack has been pretty emotionally charged – “This is NOT a ThinkPad” type stuff. While I think those comments are probably valid – this notebook doesn’t have a lot in common with what the ThinkPad brand has historically embodied, beyond the very superficial – I think there are more business-minded criticisms that can be leveled at the decision to brand the SL a ThinkPad.
The sort of IdeaPad/ThinkPad delineation that creates distinction between the brands is a smart marketing move, for a number of reasons. It’s logical and helpful to group similar offerings into particular product lines, if only so that your customers can order your offering in their heads. And it’s confusing (yes – perhaps even deceptive) to throw things in there that violate assumptions that the line has built up. I do believe that introducing a low-cost, budget laptop and calling it a ThinkPad will dilute the brand’s good standing. I’m also not sure how the SL will really benefit from the association with a brand whose name is synonymous with (amongst other things) stodgy traditionalism and a price tag at which only multinational corporations fail to balk.
Although there’ve been a lot of myopic comparisons to the automobile industry in these threads, that industry can be a fairly good analogy here, because they’re probably better than anyone at this brand delineation thing. Granted, that’s because they realise that cars are bought on passion and on brand far more than PCs are, but nevertheless. If you examine the way that car companies group their marques, their lines and their models, you’ll see that exactly what each brand stands for is clearly defined. By releasing the SL as a ThinkPad, I really believe Lenovo has screwed up that delineation.
July 27th, 2008 2:02 pm
Businesses will pay for a lot of those things if they’re standard. Our laptops are split between Thinkpad T series and Apple MacBook Pros. The MacBook Pro has DVI and requires DVI->VGA connectors to connect to projectors but quite frankly, no one cares as it also allows us to run a 760 mm display from it (good luck doing that with VGA15). The ability to plug large displays into the laptop is _far_ more important than the small extra cost.
You can not get an Apple without DVI, but really no one wants it any other way and that’s been the case for years. I’d love to see Thinkpads with DisplayPort in them and shipped with a DisplayPort to VGA15 adapter. Make it your standard and the price comes down so everyone wins.
July 27th, 2008 8:20 pm
A significant issue with laptops is that they are not well designed for reliability. I am not aware of any laptop that supports ECC RAM (from any company) and support for RAID in a laptop is minimal (the larger Thinkpads are better than most because the CD or DVD drive can be replaced with a second hard disk thus allowing software RAID).
In a large corporation you have backup policies that are implemented every time a laptop is connected to the network. A damaged hard disk will lose at most the work from one conference – and the user can back that up to a USB device).
In the small business market you often have one machine being used for everything and with minimal backups. It is therefore more important to have the machine not lose data.
July 27th, 2008 11:31 pm
Honda & Toyota make many different vehicles. They are still called Honda’s and Toyota’s.
You can get a Yaris without many features… but it’s still a Toyota just like a Camry.
This is no different.
July 28th, 2008 3:02 am
Hopefully the SL series will allow more high-end, consumer oriented features that we normally don’t see in business laptops. We now have BluRay and HDMI options on the SL. Now if they will allow the return of IPS screens there will be people who will pay a premium for them on the SL.
Personally I like the SL design – not for use as a mobile workstation (I’m still holding out on my T42p, hopefully I get enough funds for a new Thinkpad mobile workstation) – but as for a home/small business laptop.
As for the rants…
When the Thinkpad i series came out, people screamed because it came out with a Windows key, paltry performance, though it came with an almost-IBM quality at the fraction of the cost. Still a Thinkpad for lots of people.
Back when the Z60t came out, people screamed because it came out with a titanium lid, aside from being widescreen. Still a Thinkpad nonetheless. The titanium lid was cool, although I prefer a matte finish as there’s less chances it’ll slip out of my hands.
Now the SL400 is out, and people are now screaming because it comes with a piano-finish lid, latchless design, no thinklight, and a six-row keyboard. Still a Thinkpad, although I would admit they screwed up the keyboard bigtime. I really HATE that keyboard design (from the 3000-series, and even the G-series has it). It’s a bane for me as a programmer. Please fix the keyboard Lenovo!
July 28th, 2008 6:45 am
Russel i think the the top line models in Alienware can support RAID, but not sure about ECC RAM.
July 28th, 2008 7:24 am
wjli2: I think that the fact that Alienware laptops offer RAID-0 before RAID-1 says all we need to know about their attitude towards reliability.
Besides, I could never recommend that one of my clients buy a machine with the model name “area 51″.
The phrase “no-one ever got fired for buying IBM” doesn’t get heard much nowadays (and I’ve never heard “no-one ever got fired for buying Lenovo”). But I think it’s probably reasonable to say “no-one ever got ridiculed by a client for recommending Lenovo”, while the same certainly couldn’t be said for Alienware.
July 28th, 2008 10:42 am
I am not recommending alienware, i am just saying one of the model has a basic RAID setup. My friend got an Alienware and the power supply on it weighs around 1.2 kg, a size of a real brick.
July 28th, 2008 5:56 pm
@James Rainey
Your example is a poor one in my opinion. A Yaris is very similar to a Camry. Both are relatively cheap yet reliable. Their differences can be related to the differences between an X-series and a T-series.
A better example for you would have been the VW Golf ($20k range, 200 horsepower) and the VW Phaeton ($70k range, W12 450 horsepower). This wouldn’t help carry your point thought because Volkswagen made the same mistake as Lenovo… they only did it in reverse. The Phaeton should have been part of VW’s luxury line Audi.
The SL *does* indeed pollute the ThinkPad brand. I’m not against the glowing red dot, as long as the other ThinkPad features were present. I won’t go so far as saying this is a turning point in the brand, as every brand has a misstep and that includes ThinkPads of the past. For the most part I love my new X61 and don’t care that there is no IBM branding. It feels every bit as solid as my old T40. Sure, the “IBM” logo would have been nice but the quality is there and that’s the most important thing.
Everything you mentioned with regards to Joe’s Flower Shop is just a value added service and can be applied to any laptop. If you are looking to push your ThinkPad line you can do so without lying to the end-user. Inserting marketing material to lower end laptops pushing some of the higher-end ThinkPad features would be a good idea. Do you currently do that? Nope.
Only time will tell if Lenovo will hurt the ThinkPad brand. So far it hasn’t, but the “ThinkPad” SL is certainly not reassuring.
July 28th, 2008 8:43 pm
Actually the Lenovo thinkpads feel more solid than the IBM thinkpads, due to the existence of an internal roll cage. When i hold the T40 on the edge with one hand with the screen open you can feel the whole things warps slightly, which is not the case with the T61p i had. T40 has an exoskeleton, while the T61p has an endoskeleton.
July 28th, 2008 8:51 pm
I think it’s just unfortunate that the SL has a different keyboard layout from the “regular” Thinkpads. If it had the same layout, there would be much less complaining.
We have a LOT of Thinkpads at work. To save costs, we’ve been buying very very low end R series that lack Active Protection, dock connector, roll cage, and/or hot-swap Ultraybay for the users. But the users still love them for the keyboards and strong built, and IT loves them for the hardware consistency and compatibility. We also have a number of Lenovo 3000′s, but we consider it a different make entirely. It would’ve been easier if the very low end R series got renamed into the SL series instead of “half-merging” the Lenovo 3000 series into the Thinkpad series.
July 29th, 2008 2:56 am
yes, that’s right about the T40 and T61p.
But what does this tell us about the SL without endoskeleton?
I’m curious to know your opinion about the SL after you’ve held it
on the edge? And after you’ve done some serious typing on this
strange keyboard?
July 29th, 2008 4:01 am
it’s a stinkpad unfortunately.
July 29th, 2008 6:23 am
I can’t really say anything about SL, because i never used them, i have seen it in one of the reseller in Shanghai’s Computer Market, but i never held it. The keyboard’s feel on the machine is okay, but not sure about anything else. Strength wise, i doubt it can rival that of R or T series, otherwise the roll cage would just become a gimmick.
July 29th, 2008 11:51 am
What I was really looking forward to in the new Thinkpad announcements was the return of the 4×3 screen form factor. Not everybody buys a laptop to watch movies on the plane; some tasks, such as reading documents, require a larger vertical dimension, and one way to provide an adequate number of vertical pixels without ending up with a non-portable brick is to return to the 4×3 display form factor.
July 29th, 2008 11:57 am
I just looked at the SL configuration and see that bluetooth isn’t offered on any of them. Why is that? Hmmm. Now I see that bluetooth isn’t offered on most of the T configurations anymore. It only seems to be available on the lowest-end configuration. Is this just a temporary problem with supply, or is Lenovo making a statement that bluetooth hasn’t been popular enough to support as built-in to a Thinkpad?
July 29th, 2008 11:59 am
I am one of those who did not welcome the ThinkPad SL. And in fact, my issue with it is just the ThinkPad in the name (that I wouldn’t buy it because my sweet spot is in the higher quality T-series doesn’t matter). IMO, it should have been named an IdeaPad or another name, but not ThinkPad.
In restropect, I can certainly say that most of my emotional response to the SL blog post was due to said post “praising” design decisions along with the “ThinkPad” name on something that is clearly not up to more traditional ThinkPad quality. I obviously took it as a thread to the future of what I consider to be real ThinkPads.
Anyway, I hope Lenovo will at least give us T series laptops with very high quality (read: IPS or better) displays and a very no-nonsense professional look (that means black/dark-gray color, matte finish, no cute leds, and the T42/T43 keyboard layout and color scheme).
We do corporate laptop purchases where I work and I am one of the two people who write the specs. I have found the T-series with better displays to be the perfect feature fit for field engineers that need it for dirty work and ALSO for meetings with clients. An IPS display DOES enhance the readability under harsher light conditions, and it projects an image of “excellence inside” when coupled with a professional, no-nonsense looking laptop that is *extremely* important on the engineering field.
I can perfectly understand the R-series without IPS, but really, when defining the specs for a massive buy order of thousands of machines, you end up with a few CATEGORIES (two or three). They typically would be a huge number of R-series without IPS (reason: price), a moderate number of upper-range T-series WITH IPS (reason: features at acceptable price) and a smaller number of the highest quality X-series we could get (reason: portability and making the execs happy).
I can’t argue against versions of the X series without IPS: It is a sweet spot to give to engineers that travel too much to use a better T-series with IPS (because a X series without IPS is about the same price as a high-end T-series with IPS). But we do want X-series models with very high quality displays for the higher execs, you can’t give them a X-series with an ugly display, they ask for your spleen if you do: Apple is not a problem because they want something with Microsoft Windows, but if the guy sitting on the next seat has something the size of a X-series with a display that is clearly much better, we are screwed!
July 29th, 2008 12:12 pm
There has been security issue with bluetooth devices, whether that is the reason why Lenovo dropped bluetooth device from their systems is can only be speculated.
July 29th, 2008 12:22 pm
Panasonic Toughbooks are expensive and most of it are no better than Thinkpads in terms of shock resistance, it is a niche product. It is like Merc or BMW fearing that Ferrari or Lambo is going to steal away their businesses in the sedan sectors, it is a waste of time.
Lenovo’s direct competitors are HP, Dell and ASUS.
July 30th, 2008 3:35 am
Matt,
I saw a very enthusiastic review of your new SL Thinkpads on the quite interesting web site:
http://www.thinkpadstoday.com
Is this web site an unofficial corporate blog as well? ( I mean, reading their web sites looks like an official corporate marketing channel!!) Do you send them (your Lenovo colleagues?) pre-information to heat up the rumors?
I am curious.
Besides, when do we get IdeaPads in Europe? This year, next year????!!
July 30th, 2008 6:40 am
Posted on the other blog (design matters)
I’ve read the reviews on notebookreview and laptopmag about the SL400 and have placed my order for it already. Then I stumbled onto this blog. Reading most of the comments left on here, I would like to voice my opinion.
Firstly, I give 2 thumbs up to the Lenovo team for developing the SL series. It seems like there isn’t much love from your customers.
For you dedicated Thinkpad users, I am in speechless. Literally, you all love your Thinkpads so much, but when Lenovo develops a new product you bash and flame away to your beloved brand. Until any of you die hard fans have purchased enough shares to vote which direction Lenovo is headed, comments such as “I would not recommend one” should be left behind you.
How do you expect your beloved brand to continue to supply great Thinkpads for you, when all of you bash and trash your OWN brand. Give that a thought.
I would LOVE to purchase a R series or T series, but seeing as how I’m on a budget as a student I’m very limited. I loved the Trackpoint as my sister had an old i-series back in the day of PIII’s, which is why I looked at the Thinkpads in the first place. However, the price was the reason why I looked away from them. If it weren’t for the release of the SL series i would have purchased a Dell.
The SL400 I bought was $706 CDN, had I bought a R series with the same specs, it would be $1032. It’s a $300+ price difference. That difference is just what Lenovo needed, because Lenovo just got a new customer. If they never introduced the SL series, I would have looked the other way.
Sure it doesn’t have physical features like roll cage, matte lid, steel hinges that all you die hard fans seem to need for whatever reason, but it has the same processing power as the R or T series I wanted. I’m sure none of you buy a laptop based soley on how well it can be thrown around, or how you can spill your coffee on it. You buy a laptop knowning its fragile like any other type of electronic, not indestructable. But I’m sure some of you would disagree with me and tell me those are must have features. For consumers like me though, I don’t look for those types of things. I’ve never spilt anything on any laptop, nor have I ever dropped a laptop. Thats the market that Lenovo is trying to expand into and Lenovo has done a fine job.
They’re not telling you to buy one. Obiviously you die hards would get the T or X series. But thats what sets enthusiasts apart from regular customers because everyone has their own priorities. If we could all afford the R or T series, but thats not the case is it? We would all love to drive around Lambos and Porsches. Please don’t tell me that any of you die hard fans would love all the lines of cars, say Honda or Toyota makes? So how do you expect to love all the lines of laptop Lenovo makes?
You fans should be supporting Lenovo if you want to contindue owning Thinkpads, why do you think they need to create a cheaper Thinkpad? They have competitors, and they won’t stay alive with just the die hard Thinkpad users. You guys live by having the same Thinkpads, the same keyboards, the same latches and hinges. Do you also eat at the same resturant each time you go out? Do you only wear one brand of clothing? Do you only drink one type of water?
Variety, its the spice of life!
July 30th, 2008 7:59 am
This website, http://www.thinkpadtoday.com, can’t say something bad about thinkpads. It’s not objective.
July 30th, 2008 2:10 pm
Vy,
you are a fan. I, and I believe I speak for many others, am not, or at least not in the way you perceive that word. I like Thinkpads, but I don’t adore them blindly. I like them because they share a certain number of elements, and all those elements that I perceive under that brand – apart from trackpoint – are missing from SL: that’s what I buy when I buy a Thinkpad. What you buy is a label which you could have painted yourself on any notebook.
July 31st, 2008 10:55 pm
@Vy:
You’re being confused. We’re not bashing the SL as a computer. It looks fine and has some great features.
It’s just not a ThinkPad. We’re arguing that the SL should have been called a Lenovo SLXX because the name ThinkPad has standards which the SL doesn’t live up to.
August 1st, 2008 2:25 pm
A small correction to what I originally wrote above. It turns out that the ThinkPad SL 300, 400, and 500 all have drainage systems, just like other ThinkPads. I mistakenly said they did not in my original post.
August 1st, 2008 2:32 pm
Here’s the thing, and Lenovo /should/ understand it well, because it is a textbook example of business in China. How many of you are aware of the Buick case?
Buick entered the Chinese market and sold only their high-end cars. It was seen as a luxury brand accordingly. One day, Buick decided to get greedy and tried to appeal to the lower-end market by introducing more economical cars. The brand was diluted and abandoned by luxury car buyers. One important thing to remember in the luxury market, image is EVERYTHING. Why do people buy a Mercedes, BMW or Lexus? Because it is a superior product that is out of the reach of common rabble. It sets them apart from the crowd. Buick forgot this and have NEVER recovered from it. Sure, they sold lower end cars, but they have been busting their asses ever since trying to repair the damage.
Lenovo is doing the same thing. There is a reason why Toyota made Scion a separate brand, and that was to preserve the brand WHILE diversifying at the same time.
If Lenovo thinks it can compete with the Dells and HPs on the market, they are sadly mistaken. That is their niche and they pretty much stick to it. They have business-class offerings but they don’t hype them. Calling a Lenovo a Thinkpad and trying to mooch off of the brand is something I like to call “deceptive marketing”. By doing this, you strike fear into current users who buy for spec. So good luck competing with Asus, HP and Dell, but the compromises you will have to make to drive the pricepoint down to their level will leave the Thinkpad brand seriously devalued and anyone who is wise to it will find someone else who actually listens to them.
You killed the hinges, light, keyboard and design consistency on this one, please tell me again why it’s a Thinkpad anymore than a Prizm was a Chevy.
August 1st, 2008 3:59 pm
I am dismayed to hear screen quality dismissed so easily. For imaging and design professionals nothing is more critical than screen quality. Not everyone works on just spreadsheets, compilers, and word documents. It would be nice to finally have a portable notebook that meets the screen requirements of visual content developers. The screen is the interface after all, and it would be nice if we could get one that is accurate and usable for professional imaging and design. At the very least make it a plug and play component of the notebook so that we can upgrade it as better screens become available.
Think about this, I might not even buy a laptop with current screen quality, if cell phones could connect to external drives, electronic devices such as digital still/video cameras, and docking stations at the home/office that would allow me to work with a keyboard and desktop screen, and or simply be an external device connected to my desktop. I don’t think it’s that many years away before we have a completely modular system with the cell phone or other portable communications device that allows users to get their work done via client applications or on board software in a Blackberry or iPhone type device. Screen size, screen quality, and a large keyboard are the only things that may ultimately differentiate a laptop from a cell phone in terms of what you need in a device that you can take with you. Storage, connectivity, and computing power are things that cell phones should be able to provide more of as new technologies allow. What good is a computer if it does not have a screen that is usable?
Regarding the SL series diluting the brand, it’s clearly an addition to the brand not a replacement to the T series Thinkpads. I do understand the point that Lenovo is taking advantage of the brand quality associated with the Thinkpad to sell a lesser quality product, but what the heck so long as they still offer the highest quality notebooks. I just wish that when Lenovo sells a laptop with Open GL support that they would offer a screen to go with it, and a port that allows for maximum quality with the highest quality desktop screens.
“I agree with not including HDMI, Blu-Ray. If you are looking at Thinkpads in the first place, you shouldn’t be wanting those features. Go buy a Sony or Dell if you must have them.”
VGA does not cut it anymore. This sounds like the CEO of Exxon telling stockholders that if they want to invest in an oil company that is investing in alternative energy (ie. the future) then sell your Exxon stock and buy BP instead. In the case of Lenovo lacking in rich media and imaging capabilities there is an alternative in Apple. I would not consider Sony or Dell, but a Macbook Pro is a consideration, and the next release will likely offer HDMI and Blue Ray. I might add that Apple still hasn’t discovered spill proof keyboards and Thinkpad durability, which is one example of why Apple products are a bit of a rip off. Apple warranties are more than a bit of a rip off, they are a major rip off, with limited coverage.
August 2nd, 2008 2:48 am
Mike i think you bit misinformed regarding the Buick business case in China, Buick is just a sub-brand of GM in China, Buick, Chevy and Caddy are operated under GM shanghai’s coordination. When Buick first entered Chinese market, there was only Buick and no other GM companies operating in China. Now there are also Chevy and Cadillac operating in China, both of these brands are also under the Shanghai GM arms, much like Thinkpads, Ideapads and 3000 of Lenovo.
American should know that Cadillac are considered a far superior brand, some American calls Caddy the American Rolls Royce, the Chinese people are not stupid in that regard. It is even more foolish to think that Chinese are going to pay Cadillac Price for a Buick car. Buick was only an stop gap measure before GM introduced Caddy to the Chinese market for higher end cars and Chevy for lower end products, right now Buick Royaum and Buick Park Avenue sold in China are just Holden Statesmen from Australia (now sent as CKD and assembled in Shanghai, this would avoid the high tax rate of fully Imported Cars, this is also how VW Phaeton are sent to China). These CKD car kits are relatively easy to assemble, as they come to China 98% assembled, it just don’t have the Wheels or the badgings. So GM don’t incur large production costs by selling these CKD cars, as labour costs for assembly are cheap in China and no special manufacturing equipments or processes must be made available.
GM’s business in China is quite well organised right now and it operates with far higher efficiency than the business they have in America. Basically right now Buick sells all the medium range cars (LaCrosse, the old Regal) and family mover (GL8, number one seller in China for that class and i own one) to compete with the like of VW, etc. While Caddy sells higher end products like CTS to compete with similar offerings from their competitors, GM is really trying very hard to establish Caddy as the number one product choice for that sector (which VW holds for several years), which is why it is coughing up so much marketing dollars. While, Chevy in China is selling all their al cheapo Korean designed (i think Daewoo was the designer) lower end cars badged with chevy to compete with Hyundai, Kia and even VW, is this ‘deceptive marketing’.
Lexus (maybe you can consider that as deceptive) is brand that Toyota established in USA and Europe to compete with Merc and BMW in 1989 and with great success at the start, leaving Bemmer and Merc playing catchup for a while. In Japan at that time all Lexus cars are just badged as Toyota and sold as such. It is only recently Lexus are sold as Lexus in Japan. Then there is Nissan Infiniti and Honda Accura, Mazda also made a less success move. Some people have argued that Japanese cars could never compete with German, Brits or American car brands in terms of quality and/or prowness, time have proven them wrong in many instances. The most profitable car company right now is Toyota, whom paid each American worker around 20,000 USD in annual bonuses. While Ford is continuing their losses for how many years now??? This is not how Henry Ford had envisaged the Ford to be.
Merc is out of reach of a common rabble??? maybe you should go to Germany, much of their taxi cabs are made by Mercedes. Lexus is not that expensive in Japan either.
Lenovo is actually competing on a level playing field, it has grown by leaps and bounds from it’s humble beginning 20 odd years ago. While Dell, IBM and HP/Compaq have all shrunk and are struggling in many senses (that is why HP and Compaq merged, while IBM sold the Think brands to Lenovo), but then again whom isn’t, in today’s highly competitive IT market. Only the fittest survives.
Why Lenovo calling SL series a Thinkpad some kind of deceptive marketing??? It would only be deceptive if Lenovo are stating SL series ‘can’ reach a certain standards or do certain things that it can’t. There is no predefined guideline on what Thinkpad has to be, or is there????
August 2nd, 2008 3:04 am
Also GM was commanding a second place position after VW, when Buick was selling the Sail, which a rebranded Opel. But it dropped to seventh position when it had a one year delay between Shifting the Sail model from under Buick to Chevy, during which there was no small cars offered by GM and lost sales resulted in decline of market share. So right now Lenovo got every ground covered, whether SL is a worthwhile move for Lenovo, only time can be the judge of that.
August 2nd, 2008 8:33 am
Yes, good post Mike.
I would like to add something (as usual).
You guys, Lenovo team, must understand that we love the brand Thinkpad. And, i think it’s the opinion of each of us, you did, before with IBM and now with Lenovo, a very good job with this brand.
Who here hates the last X300 MBA killer ? I think nobody. Who here hates the new T, W, X series ? I think nobody ?
Who hates Ideapad ? I think nobody.
We don’t care if you want to increase Lenovo sales and earn more money. It’s normal and we can understand this.
The only thing that most of us can’t understand is, why put “Thinkpad” name in a low cost laptop?
Maybe the new Lenovo SL series is a good laptop, and i think it’s, BUT, IT’S NOT A THINKPAD.
Lenovo can do good things without putting Thinkpad name in each laptop they build.
Ideapad for example. It’s going to mass public and thinkpad users can understand this, that’s why, i think, when Lenovo create the new Ideapad with Lenovo brand, nobody say anything.
Why couldn’t you create a new brand for SL series? I don’t know, BusinessPad for example.
You’ll have low cost laptops for a large public (Ideapad), a medium for SMB (SL series or BusinessPad for example), and the top of the brand (Thinkpad) for the rest.
Don’t try to copy Thinkpads. We know what we have, and what we pay.
Don’t try to imitate Vostro from Dell, HP, Acer or any brand. Innovate !!!!
If you want to build and sell a cheapest laptop for SMB, why not. If you want to follow consumers and put shiny, glossy, colors on yours laptops, yeah, why not.
But you don’t need to crash Thinkpad brand and name to do this, good example, Ideapad.
It’s with colours, it seems like most of consumers want and use in their houses. Why not ?
But a thinkpad is a Thinkpad.
Maybe the new SL series will be sold very well, maybe.
But if it’s, i know that Lenovo management will claim victory, but it will not be.
When you devalue the master brand from Lenovo, nobody wins.
“Lenovo SL series, the only compromise Thinkpad”
August 2nd, 2008 8:52 pm
Thanks for writing such a good piece. I saw the SL on the website and wasn’t sure what it was. It appeared to be a modified R from my perspective. Now I understand what it’s purpose and functions are.
It’s good to know that the T Series will be around for a long time. Very reliable performnance over each generation. I hope to get an X Series tablet sooner or later. My T60p runs like a dream. Do you guys offer extended warranties when my three years are up?
August 4th, 2008 5:29 pm
I believe the SL is a nice machine. I haven’t had any handon experience with it but I hope it would be as light as the other competitor (2.6-2.7 kg for 15.4″). The budget model from HP (hp530) is in fact quite light and a joy to use except the low cpu speed., and they looks just fine.
for 1 thing lenovo please fix your windows vista bundle. the bundled windows software rendered the R61i I bought nearly unusable because of its full of trial software and improper configured software. For people who dont do any clean install it really gave them a poor impression of how lenovo computer runs. please please do something about it.
August 4th, 2008 9:22 pm
Mike, I can’t agree with you more, Image is everything for a superb brand:
“…Because it is a superior product that is out of the reach of common rabble. It sets them apart from the crowd…
…Calling a Lenovo a Thinkpad and trying to mooch off of the brand is something I like to call “deceptive marketing”… will leave the Thinkpad brand seriously devalued and anyone who is wise to it will find someone else who actually listens to them…
…You killed the *hinges, light, keyboard* and *design consistency* on this one, please tell me again why it’s a Thinkpad anymore than a Prizm was a Chevy.”…”
I wonder why there is such a decision: there’s already the Ideapad brand, please market products (We are saying the SL series) that substantially deviate from the Thinkpad gold standards outside the Thinkpad brand. And let established brand(s) go up in its quality, instead of letting it “accidentially” deteriorate. That’s the only way to sustain a brand, especially a superb brand.
August 5th, 2008 12:50 pm
Nevermind SL – it fills certain niche, and there are other options available for those who don’t like it.
The sad thing is how Lenovo netbooks (announced yesterday) ended up…yes, many will say they’re nice/etc., but…they bring NOTHING of significance over the ones already available on the market.
And they could be so much better…if only they were Thinkpads, not Ideapads; if only they dropped miniature/too small touchpad and went with trackpoint instead. That plus traditional attention to battery life of Thinkpads would mean they would be far above the competition…right now they’re only good…
Yes, I think that “mini X” would be the best netbook there is…
August 5th, 2008 11:45 pm
Zima, the point of netbooks is that it is priced at a level that competes with ASUS EeePC, so if it was to have the quality and strength of X series, the cost would go up and therefore it WOULDN’T have the necessary incentive to attract budget buyers into purchasing netbook over an EeePC. Lenovo right now wants to capture a large slice of the subnotebook market from already established ASUS EeePC, so keen pricing is important. Once netbook proves a success and earn the necessary profit, then i would think Lenovo would probably move to fill the subnotebook market with a Thinkpad subnotebook for people where money is of lesser concern.
August 6th, 2008 4:49 am
wjli2, of course – I don’t wish for introduction of slightly smaller X to compete in netbook area, just for something which I called “mini X” (and that doesn’t describe only perf. specs/etc.)
It could actually be something a bit like this SL – just _some_ of Thinkpad characteristics (for example: on one hand rollcage seems like a good idea in netbook because of all the beating they get…otoh small size itself helps with ruggedness). Mainly those two characteristics I mentioned: option for really, really big batteries (options wouldn’t influence base price that much…) and…changing “too small” touchpad for trackpoint (again, not including both would help to prevent skyrocketing costs)
You say that Lenovo needs to capture a large slice of this market…but they’re not doing it with something that’s really in any way different from, say, MSI Wind or Acer Aspire One (those guys really do compete on low price… :/).
Oh well, I guess I’d simply prefer a market which would reward for something new, something markedly better than the rest…
August 6th, 2008 8:51 am
Actually, i really don’t care what Lenovo want to do with his new netbooks. And i think, if they want to do a cheapest laptop for new consumers, it’s okay. They want to be competitive.
They’re right on this.
I know that i’ll never buy this laptop, but to compete with other brands like acer, asus….it should be a good idea.
I’m not agree with you zima. For me, Thinkpad is a Thinkpad.
Don’t give to Lenovo stupids ideas like putting a roll cage or something from Thinkpads to put in this netbooks.
Why ?? Look at the new SL series, which is NOT A THINKPAD. It’s a disaster.
So, let them build a cheapest laptop for new consumers, WITHOUT Thinkpad specificities. Don’t try to make a confusion on Thinkpad users.
Let them innovate.
August 6th, 2008 9:35 am
Innovation would be great, if there would be any!
The last competitive innovation on the Thinkpad side was
the complete roll cage starting with the T61 series.
That’s about it.
The SL-Series or the Netbook are for sure not innovative,
compared to what other manufacturers are currently offering
or compared to what previous Thinkpads where able to offer.
August 6th, 2008 10:04 am
Thinkpad can no longer ask for the kind of dollars that Thinkpad once could 10 or 15 years ago under IBM, and innovation on most account costs lot of money. Most people whom stick to Thinkpads like things to just work and not break down or unnecessary interfere with their work. Other manufacturers’ notebook change so often that every model has a totally different layout from each other. People think touch sensitive control is innovative until they actually use it, it is unresponsive and work inconsistently.
Alienware on most accounts have lot of innovations, but most of it, is gimmick. Do you really need 4 colour neon lights on every corners of your laptops???? Do a tiny external LCD screen on the laptop’s lid really improve your work efficiency by a whole lot.
Thinkpads are no nonsense laptops, if you want blings and frills you are obviously looking at the wrong laptops. Thinkpads design are ageless, just like men’s business suits.
Many people have bagged about how old the pushrod engines design are, yet there are still significant amount of people flocking to Corvette Z06, Dodge Vipers SRT-8 and Harley Davidson Softtails.
August 7th, 2008 9:24 am
I’m surprised no one has mentioned the one, great feature that the SL400 and SL500 share but is completely absent in any of the current “true” 15 inch form-factor ThinkPad offerings: A centered screen. I’d love to replace my aging ThinkPad with a brand-new T-series, but the offset display prevents me from doing so. I’ve tried using a buddy’s T61 for an entire workday, and while the updated features and superb quality of his ThinkPad was evident from the moment I picked it up ….using the machine for an extended period of time was underly dreadful. It’s almost the visual equivalent of nails on a chalkboard.
What I would absolutely LOVE to see is a 15.4 inch form factor merged with of the attention to detail, thin design, overall refinement and of the X300. (An X500?…yes, I realize calling a 15 inch laptop an “x” series is incredibly wrong, but the machine I’m describing would share more in common with the x300 than a 15-inch T-series. ) Due to the large amount of multi-tasking I do during the course of the day, sacrificing the screen real-estate of the 15-ish inch form-factor simply isn’t a really feasible option…and when coupled with the 1.2GHz low-voltage processor of the X300 – (the sole CPU option for the X300) and it’s just not enough. Lenovo has already proven they’re more than capable of not only upholding the ThinkPad’s legendary quality and inovation with the X300, they’ve shown they can surpass them. Fitting the X300 into a larger form factor while keeping it thin and fairly lean should be a cake walk.
As for the calling the SL-series “ThinkPads”? I personally think that the SL-series having the only two-letter designation out of the entire lineup is enough of a distinction. So What if they carry the ThinkPad name? Lenovo raised the bar quite high earlier this year with X300, and I personally think they can afford the small amount of brand dilution.
Keep in mind that even though the SL-series lacks many of the details traditionally found on a ThinkPad, it was still designed and tested by the same engineers with the same demanding standards, so some of that ThinkPad quality is going to end-up trickling down. For the price, I think That’s reasonable. Think of it like this: the SL is a bottom-of-the-rung, base model Honda Civic. It lacks some creature comforts, but that;s exactly what makes it affordable. The rest of the ThinkPad is like a Honda Civic SI with every bell and whistle. It’s costs significantly more, has just about any feature one could want, and many of the vehicles’ component systems have been upgraded over the base model; like the suspension, engine, brakes and interior. One the one hand, they’ve very, very different vehicles…but at the end of the day, they’re both still a Civic.
August 7th, 2008 3:05 pm
Gary Smith – while you might like the centered screen, its not really offset on the other models to cause any real functional problem other than aesthetics, your displeasure with it is probably mostly pyschological or just a departure from what your used to.
The thing about the centered screen – the way this is achieved is due to the SLs having no LCD rollcage and there is no way they will have as good a wireless reception – I would take a more robust system with better reception (as well as all the other benefits of T series) over a centered screen anyday.
Dont get me wrong, I dont think its good design but in a world of compromises I just know the ones that are more important. I do however agree that the thickness of the systems needs to be worked on, 15″ systems have always been quite thick but the 14″ widescreen T series are ridiculous compared with Lenovos first attempt in the Z60t.
I know the designed and tested by the same engineers is the offical line from Lenovo regarding the SL series but if that were true they would have the ThinkPad BIOS which they dont so i’m not sure I believe it, i’d almost guarantee these are generic systems picked from the ODM with just a few ‘ThinkPad’ alterations.
August 7th, 2008 3:08 pm
Gary, unfortunately lot of people don’t share your train of thoughts. The new X, T, R and W series of Thinkpads are already out, and they all remain true to the original Thinkpads. Obviously SL series isn’t for everyone and for the price it is well featured, if someone don’t like the way SL line is designed then just stick with the T400, 500 and W500.
August 7th, 2008 7:20 pm
The Thinkpad is a well regarded brand that stands for quality and performance(T/p series).
I think Lenovo is running the risk of sullying the name Thinkpad when such a budget office machine could easily have been incorporated into the range without adding a such a substandard unit into the range. It may have well been coloured red and while and labelled “Thinkpad Value” and sold in Tesco with the expired vegetables.
This could of course work to sell more machines as Thinkpads but it is a risky strategy because it could end up putting a cloud over the whole Thinkpad range and devaluing what is an extremely valuable brand name. On a personal note I have a T61p and am upset that the Thinkpad brand of which I am such a proud and devoted adherent is being undermined in this way.
Rather than risking such a thing I think Lenovo would have been better served by differentiating the current range more clearly in the following way:
Ideapad – cheap kit with gimmiky options for end users and tight wad small businesses.
and for those who know the difference:
R series – budget concious but reasonable entry level Thinkpad (i.e. better and consistent quality)
X series – Tablet PC / Lightweight
T series – Best build quality and latest components
T performance series – As above but with: discrete GPU / Top Quality high resolution LCD / Graphics related hardware (HDMI – BluRay – etc)
This way you could cover a huge price band, currently the R series is too overpriced and insufficiently differentiated from the T series. The T series should have the extra graphics quality AND connectors such as HDMI, it’s easy to forget that there are a lot of graphic intensive applications for the T/p series, as per how I use the machine and it makes perfect sense to bundle the discrete GPU with the related interfaces in the T/p series and still have the T series for mainline business use.
August 7th, 2008 9:22 pm
Thinkpad is not an horrible Honda civic SI but a beautiful design porsche, Mercedes or Ferrari. New Lenovo SL series IS an horrible Honda civic quality.
“Lenovo SL series, the only compromise Thinkpad”
August 8th, 2008 12:10 pm
I think SL is a model that Lenovo released to test the customer reaction, if it doesn’t work, Lenovo can obviously discontinue it in the future.
August 10th, 2008 3:39 pm
Thank you very much Lenovo for the introduction of the Thinkpad SL Series.
) which according to some reviews I read is robust enough for me and has many the wonderful TP features having me long for purchasing one. For me, its price, speed and run time make it superior to the R series 
.
Finally an affordable Thinkpad (Yes, imho its a Thinkpad as much as Earth is not a disc
I love it
.
Anyone kinda hating it, go build a laptop you love
.
August 10th, 2008 9:19 pm
For the consumer, the branded good can bring a lot of benefits. A globally recognised name offers reassurance, security, and quality, as well as status. Reassurance, security, quality, status – these are some of the reasons why big, international brands are popular. But it’s actually more complex than that. While it’s challenging for advertisers to promote a brand that appeals across many different cultures, the long-term goal is to sell a way of life, not just a product. Consumers aren’t just sensible shoppers they’ve also bought into the image, the lifestyle, the very dream that big multi-national companies have carefully created.
The USA has been branding for the US nationality globally for decades, through establishment of various US-based organizations, such as UNICEF & UNESCO, through its international film industry at Hollywood, and through its global network of news media corporations. China is a “brand” that many US media & films targeted to damage for decades. The brand “ThinkPad” has been diluted because of its departure from its mother company IBM, its departure from the US, and its marriage to a China based company Lenovo. There can be a long way to go for consolidation of the brand after the damage. However, it is just relatively very easy to destroy it.
Lenovo brand has been elevated by the “ThinkPad” brand internationally. Only very careful moves can bring up the status of these two brands gradually. So, I really hope Lenovo can make their moves really carefully about their branding.
August 11th, 2008 3:35 am
Hi,
thanks for the article.
So you made a budget thinkpad line as a new entry point into to the thinkpad brand experience, and to get access to new sales channels. Good move.
What still makes me furrious is the coupling of big buissness / small buissness software features on certain hardware combinations. This is very likely a marketing decission and not due to technical limitations.
Yes, there are small buisnesses which want a multi-media machine with bling factor. But there are also small buisnesses/ home office which travel a lot and want a suber mobile, super robust stealth machine. ( x60s in my case).
I also found it sad that you kicked out the Thinklight. This is in my view one of the thinkpads hall-mark features. Think of a sistuation like this: sick children and urgend work on the computer and no second person around. With the thinklight you can sit nearby children and work without disturbing them , but ready to help. (I am not making this situation up).
for the red led in the logo: please make it possible to configure if and when it blinks / shines.
Another one for the wish list: closing the lid triggers the same reaction if on main power or on battery. it would be great if this two states could be configured independent.
cheers
r.
August 11th, 2008 11:00 am
ralf, SL is isn’t for everybody and you should remember that, there are also X/R/T/W. The fact that the price is low means that something must be sacrificed. Actually you can change your reaction by going into Windows power management, by right clicking on the desktop. In that you can change what closing the lid do under AC or battery power.
August 12th, 2008 3:25 am
Joe’s Flowers?
If I worked in a Flower shop, I’d certainly do everything to avoid getting a laptop with a HIGH-GLOSS cover.
August 13th, 2008 11:57 am
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August 13th, 2008 3:37 pm
If we cannot have IPS in the laptop as it is, here’s one compromise. Some models come with a standard display, but will work easily with about any IPS panel that’s out there(if they are as rare as Lenovo claims they are). People get their IPS panel, Lenovo can redeem themselves over one of the worst mistakes in Thinkpad history with more sales.
August 20th, 2008 3:14 am
For what it’s worth, I’m the SL-series’ target customer. I work for an online company, from home. They furnished me with an R60 last year, which I love, and which quickly became my “everything” machine, almost supplanting my desktop.
However, while the R60 does everything work-related that I need it to, it’s frustrating to try to do my artwork on it, or to, God forbid, try gaming on it — to do those things easily, I’m pretty much tethered to a desk again. Enter the SL500, and I pounced on it, especially since I plan on moving overseas and may not be allowed to take the R60 with me, even though I won’t be changing jobs. Finally, there’s a machine I can afford on my own (I’m waiting for mine to be shipped to me as I type this on the R60) which will let me do my work, get a little gaming done, and render my fractals, and it’s a brand I already know and trust because my R60, of course, is Lenovo-made too.
I’m sorry that the elitists are so very ruffled at the existence of a ThinkPad that’s got more than One True Purpose. I have to say, though, that this particular member of the “common rabble” — meaning those of us who don’t have corporate expense accounts and who have to live within our means, I suppose — will be grinning at the thought of their discomfort every time I notice that little LED. I thought it was unnecessary, but now I’ll consider it a badge of triumph. It may even make up for all the times I’ll curse the keyboard change while I adapt.
The only other thing I’d change right now, without having had the new machine in my hands yet, is common to every laptop I’ve seen, and that is that I’d shift the power cord’s connector if I could. Because it sticks straight out the back, it’s in the way if the thing’s plugged in but not sitting on a desk, and all the moving around that happens just beyond the connector means my R60′s gone through three AC adapters in just a year. Moving it to one side or the other would eliminate a lot of that.
Anyway, if this is “one of the worst mistakes in ThinkPad history,” I can’t wait to see the others. I’m sure I’ll be singing their praises too.
August 22nd, 2008 10:12 pm
Please keep HDMI -away- from the T series and bring back the 4:3 display. Widecreen is for watching movies, and if I want to do that, I’ll buy a television set. As a technical professional I want a technical computer (similar enough to what business users tend to want) and not a media center. I want to run technical software, which means Linux, so any media-oriented hardware with closed programming interfaces is unusable, and if normal machine operation relies on that hardware, that’s a big problem. It’s not a matter of being unwilling to pay for HDMI. If my T61 came with it for free, I would pay extra to get it removed. I chose the T61 over the T61p even though I -really- wanted the T61p’s WUXGA display, because I wanted the open Intel graphics chip instead of the closed nVidia one. I should add: I mostly want to look at text on the screen, so I don’t really care about super-fast refresh rates, 3D graphics, or color accuracy, but I want the maximum possible resolution and screen height (height is more important than width) so I can see more lines of text in a window.
I share the concern of those worried that the SL portends future junk-ification of the Thinkpad line.
For a long time there were only two laptop brands with well-made hardware, IBM and Apple. I’m on about my tenth Thinkpad because Thinkpads have traditionally been more open and therefore better for running Linux. Now it looks like the Thinkpad’s openness and hardware quality are both going down the drain, and there is nowhere to go (because Apple hardware is still closed). These are sad times.
August 22nd, 2008 11:37 pm
well Paul if you want 4:3 screens you can still get one with the T61. It costs too much for Lenovo to use the 4:3 when no one in the industry hardly use it. Therefore there is a great reluctance by the large screen manufacturer to continue to invest in that technology, and operate their multimillion dollar production line to produce a couple of standard screens just for Lenovo.
You not only have to pursuade Lenovo, but more importantly the LCD manufacturers to continue their support for standard screen ‘niche’ market.
August 26th, 2008 12:27 am
wjli2, lots of folks on this board are asking for a return to 4:3. I’ve never seen a sensible explanation of why the laptop industry shifted to widescreen, except to show widescreen movies. BTW, sorry I confused HDMI with HDCP in the earlier post.
September 24th, 2008 12:23 pm
The ThinkPad SL seems designed exactly for me, so I’m very happy about this. I am a business school student, and I don’t get a laptop at work, though it would be very useful. So I use the same laptop at school, work, and home. So I want a mix of relevant features.
I like the widescreen ratio, because it suits the data sets I analyze at school and work (lots of fields in a data line). If I’m going to use Vista, which is fine with me, I need the business version for RDP. Or I need XP Professional. And I am aware of ThinkPad’s reputation, so I have some trust of the brand. But I can’t afford a ThinkPad R or T.
I used to buy Dell, but the only way to get the OS I need is to get a Latitude which I can’t afford, or a Vostro which looks like a piece of junk, or “Vista Ultimate” which seems like the ultimate waste of money. I hated muddling through HP’s website, and I will probably never buy a computer at an office supply store.
All that said, it really wouldn’t bother me if this had a different brand name, like “VersaPad” or something else. I wouldn’t want to be diluting the ThinkPad brand if I were Lenovo. But this computer is a better fit for me than anything previously offered.
September 24th, 2008 12:37 pm
Another branding consideration is that this is the way of many brands. A premier brand often has a lifecycle, just like a product. It rules for a few years. Once it is established and acknowledged, it runs the risk of losing interest.
So maybe the most profitable way to use the brand asset is to take it down-market. You pull more price-conscious consumers with the brand that they’ve lusted after but couldn’t afford. Of course, you then have to introduce a new premier brand to keep your exclusive, up-market customer base. I don’t know if this is Lenovo’s strategy or not, but don’t be surprised if the MiraclePad or xPad or whatever comes out in a few months.
October 14th, 2008 10:43 am
Well, it is official. The SL series is the new Thinkpad i-series, i.e. something with “ThinkPad” written in the cover, but with a complete different beast inside.
In fact, it has the same insides of an IdeaPad (i.e. it is a “Boxter”, whatever that means) as far as the operating system can see.
The above is valid for the 27464DG SL500. Maybe some models of the SL series are IdeaPads in disguise, while others are ThinkPads (for real, not just in name)?
October 16th, 2008 7:15 pm
Henrique, it is pretty obvious the “Boxster” marque was intended to evoke the words “Boxer” (e.g., the flat-six engine layout so common to Porsche) and “Roadster” — both of which are rather germane given the car in question. A moment of consideration would have revealed this, no?
November 22nd, 2008 6:21 pm
Just one voice more to ask for IPS screen on all Thinkpad series.
The ONLY reason why I did not change my current T42p is the amazing quality of the Flexview 1600×1200 screen.
Now, as I travel more, I would love to buy a X30x serie but the screen quality is still too poor for me.
IPS screen please !
January 10th, 2009 8:14 pm
I don’t know what this is about…
I got my SL500 today and I have to say it is a wonderful machine – and I will return it tomorrow.
I will return it, not because of a red LED or different style of the usb ports within the case (which is totally acceptable – a feature when using a mouse with a nano receiver).
I also don’t mind a 6row keyboard – as long as the buttons are working.
And this brings me to the point: I am one of the mysterious linux users, and you can actually forget the SL500 with linux. Nearly nothing works the way it should, most of this because of the missing SL500 support in the thinkpad-acpi driver.
I actually don’t mind if it has a Ideapad firmware, as long as things work. Right now I can’t even enable bluetooth. I would say 45% of the laptops features are not usable.
And Lenovo support told me that their will be no support for linux at all.
Their words where
“The SL500 is design for professional business tasks, and business is Windows!”
Nothing more to explain…THAT’S why I have to return it…
October 23rd, 2009 6:19 pm
I have been planning to post this for a long time, but due to some reasons I had to delay it. I think it is the right time now since the new SL 410 and SL 510 are on the way.
I have read the discussion here and in design matters blog, here are my points:
- Thinkpads are very expensive outside US. What I mean is they are very very expensive. I don’t know why but here are the prices I have seen in a very popular on-line store in Turkey. (just copying and pasting from this site)
2,349 $ + VAT: LENOVO (IBM) X200 INTEL CORE 2 DUO P8700 2.53GHZ 2GB 160GB 12.1”
1798 $ + VAT: LENOVO (IBM) T500 INTEL CORE 2 DUO T9400 2.53GHZ 2GB 250GB 15.4″ with integrated graphics
3298 $ + VAT: LENOVO (IBM) X301 INTEL CORE 2 DUO SU9400 1.4GHZ 2GB 128GBSSD 13.3″
I don’t know if you could believe these prices, they are incredibly expensive and I don’t know if anybody despite a few could afford to buy these Thinkpads.
And when it comes to SL 500, things change dramatically. The price is very reasonable and SL 500 was the top selling laptop in this website for weeks.
839 $ + VAT: LENOVO (IBM) THINKPAD SL500 INTEL CORE 2 DUO P8600 2.4GHZ 3GB 320GB 15.4″ with Nvidia® GeForce 9300M G DirectX 10 (256MB dedicated memory)
I think this is the most distinguishing factor of SL 500 not its keyboard nor its glossy lid cover. I also like the T-series and X-series, they are really incredible machines especially the good old T61p. But there are many people in the world who cannot afford these, but still in love with Thinkpads. SL series is for them. SL series is a very good design wrt to its design merits. Being affordable , yet robust and high quality as the other Thinkpads.
People already said that SL series doesn’t belong to Thinkpad family, but they are rather IdeaPads. I really don’t know the border between a Thinkpad and Ideapad. If the border is durability, as you might know that SL 300 has already passed the military spec tests like T400, T500 and X200.
(http://www.lenovo.com/news/us/en/2009/02/rugged_computing.html) But if the boarder lies in having a 7-row keyboard or not, yes you are right then SL series doesn’t belong to the Thinkpad family.
One of my friends bought a SL500. He is one of the hardest persons to satisfy still he is extremely happy with his purchase. I said that the unit is whisper quite and is very good performance wise.
I am absolutely for the SL series and I hope Lenovo keeps on producing affordable high quality Thinkpads!
March 1st, 2010 1:20 pm
I just bought the SL410 and it’s very good! (good price too) All those anti-SL folks need to humble themselves and actually use the product before flaming! I picked it over the T400 which I was considering. I also own a macbook (keyboard not nice to use) and a Toshiba Sattelite bought in year 2000 (which has a superberb keyboard, one of the best). The hinges are indeed made of steel.
August 21st, 2010 2:12 pm
As someone who has actually used an SL410 as well as the T60, T61, and T400 I really don’t know what everyone is complaining about…
I purchase laptops for a small business and have always stuck with ThinkPads. In the past we’ve only bought T series notebooks but really have no use for some of the features. I don’t need docking ports, a 4:3 screen, or a 7-row keyboard. Yet HDMI, widescreen display, and a card reader actually happen to be extremely useful.
The hinges feel the same, the keyboard feels the same, the track pad is even better, and the laptop is just as rigid.
In my opinion if the laptop has the same good quality keyboard, track point, ThinkVantage software, and chassis then there is no reason why it can’t be called a ThinkPad. No one is trying to say this is a T series but it is definitely a ThinkPad. A BMW SUV may not share all of the performance features as a sports coupe but it’s still a BMW.
February 23rd, 2011 6:13 am
Been using my SL410 series for over 10 months and was a Macbook user prior.
For the price I paid for, this is a great laptop.
Maybe because I never owned a Thinkpad before, I quite like the widescreen and the SL keyboard.
I think Lenovo made a good call with a lower end Thinkpad.
If it wasn’t for the SL series, I would have never considered a Thinkpad or Lenovo.
I am quite happy with this machine and if I have more money in the future, I will definitely consider getting the higher end models.