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LCA: The ways of Wayland

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 17, 2013 13:24 UTC (Sun) by Serge (guest, #84957)
In reply to: LCA: The ways of Wayland by Cyberax
Parent article: LCA: The ways of Wayland

>> Can you explain what would you call "accelerated xrender" then?

> Something that doesn't really exist. Modern videocards don't have any intrinsic way to accelerate drawing of thick lines (especially with antialiasing), so X-server has to do it in software. Of course, thick lines and everything else can be emulated in shaders but as far as I know, no driver in X.org does this.

Many (most?) Xorg drivers use shaders. And that's not a problem of X11 protocol, not even Xorg problem, that's a problem of good drivers implementation. Drivers are the best place to implement hardware-specific optimisations. It's much better than having every software to carry all the possible hacks for all video adapters in the world. Unfortunately you don't have such option in Wayland.

> X.org can use 100% of CPU in graphics-intensive apps.

Sure. If it was multithreaded it could use 1600% CPU. But in real world it does not. So single-threaded design is better here. "Do not add new functionality unless you know of some real application that will require it."

> It is. There is exactly ONE implementation of X protocol with XRender extension.

Really? Xfree86, Xorg, Kdrive, Xwin32, there're even VNC servers supporting it.

> clients can happily render the next frame while Wayland is processing the request to render the current frame.

You can use Xorg this way too. The difference is that you CAN do that on Xorg, but you HAVE TO do that on Wayland.

> If you haven't noticed, I've just used your logic for these reasons.

I haven't. My logic is simple: Wayland adds more work to people, lacks lots of features, but fixes no X11 problems and nobody wins from Wayland.


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LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 17, 2013 18:09 UTC (Sun) by jrn (subscriber, #64214) [Link]

> nobody wins from Wayland

Clearly its developers win, or they wouldn't be developing it. ;-) It looks like a neat project and I am happy to see it move forward.

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 18, 2013 10:25 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

The project could do with better defenders than Cyberax though. He doesn't know what he's talking about and his debating strategy appears to consist mostly of goalpost-shifting.

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 18, 2013 11:40 UTC (Mon) by anselm (subscriber, #2796) [Link]

Possibly the people who are really knowledgeable about X11 and Wayland and the state and roadmaps of the respective projects have more important things to do with their time than to engage into pointless back-and-forth on random web sites. It's not as if Serge was a much better debater than Cyberax, either.

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 18, 2013 21:43 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

True enough! I'm not saying that choosing to do actual development rather than comment wars isn't a totally sensible decision :)

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 18, 2013 12:10 UTC (Mon) by PaXTeam (subscriber, #24616) [Link]

> [...]his debating strategy appears to consist mostly of goalpost-shifting.

this coming from you is more than ironic ;). pot meet kettle!

LCA: The ways of Wayland

Posted Mar 18, 2013 21:44 UTC (Mon) by nix (subscriber, #2304) [Link]

I don't shift goalposts intentionally. I just have a crap memory for these conversations and don't check past posts often enough. :)


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